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Author Topic: was AvP a rip off of Prometheus?  (Read 15354 times)

bishoop
Oct 25, 2012, 10:36:10 PM
Topic on: Oct 25, 2012, 10:36:10 PM
Q
Ok everyone knows there are loads of similarities between Prometheus and AvP so on the surface it looks like Prometheus ripped off AvP…..but

Dan O Bannon and Ronald Shussett were credited on AvP as some of the stuff used in that was based on the original Alien script (pyramid), they were also credited for Prometheus as again some elements were used (pyramid again, bringing on board a severed alien head), also we know Scott wanted to focus on the SJ if he ever did another Alien film. Both Cameron and Scott were wanting to do Alien 5 (sounded like Cameron story/producing, Scott directing)  but the studio went with AvP for 2004
http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/path-to-prometheus/

so perhaps there was an Alien 5 treatment floating about that contained elements of the original Dan O Bannon Alien script but also stuff RS was wanting (space jockey engineers, mankind origins etc) set post A4 with xenos/facehuggers, Ripley8, and maybe Arnie as in that link.  Then it was adapted by PWSA for AvP when A5 fell through (Predators instead of engineers shaping humanity, set present day in Antarctica instead of the future on an alien planet), before Fox had it later adapted for a full on Alien prequel by Jon Spaihts (described as 70% Alien 30% mankind origins), which was then evolved into Prometheus by Lindlelof/Scott (30% Alien 70% mankind origins)

In that way AvP could have been a rip off Prometheus (not vice versa) and could be a reason why it was an almost beat for beat remake of AvP. Its strange that it was so similar to AvP in places - almost too much of a coincidence..... 

« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2013, 02:04:03 PM by bishoop »

whiterabbit
Oct 26, 2012, 12:35:23 AM
Reply #1 on: Oct 26, 2012, 12:35:23 AM
Q
What if the crew found a severed "alien ALIEN" head. That instantly sounds better than just finding a mans head.



Ah, so much better already.  :laugh:

Oh and the way it is today; everything can be found to be a ripoff of something else.

« Last Edit: Oct 26, 2012, 02:33:06 AM by whiterabbit »

SiL
Oct 26, 2012, 12:57:15 AM
Reply #2 on: Oct 26, 2012, 12:57:15 AM
Q
so perhaps there was an Alien 5 treatment floating about that contained elements of the original Dan O Bannon Alien script but also stuff RS was wanting (space jockey engineers, mankind origins etc) set post A4 with xenos/facehuggers, Ripley8, and maybe Arnie as in that link.  Then it was adapted by PWSA for AvP when A5 fell through (Predators instead of engineers shaping humanity, set present day in Antarctica instead of the future on an alien planet), before Fox had it later adapted for a full on Alien prequel by Jon Spaihts (described as 70% Alien 30% mankind origins), which was then evolved into Prometheus by Lindlelof/Scott (30% Alien 70% mankind origins)
Except none of this happened in the real world. Anderson had his AvP idea in the mid 90s, Scott and Cameron ostensibly had only been talking about the idea when Fox told them they were doing AvP instead, and Spaihts' script was spec, not commissioned.

Quote
In that way AvP could have been a rip off Prometheus (not vice versa) and could be a reason why it was an almost beat for beat remake of AvP. Its strange that it was so similar to AvP in places - almost too much of a coincidence..... 
They're so similar because they're both using the same cliche plot outline for a sci-fi adventure film; a group of specialists from various fields are brought to gather to examine a history making/altering event as intriguing as it winds up being terrifying. See also The Andromeda Strain, Jurassic Park, Sphere, The Core, etc.


Xenomorphine
Oct 26, 2012, 03:52:15 AM
Reply #3 on: Oct 26, 2012, 03:52:15 AM
Q
There are several key scenes which are alarmingly similar in structure, if not also tone.

I'm fairly sure that no version of 'Prometheus' was around before the 2004 release of the first of the AVP films, however...


SM
Oct 26, 2012, 03:56:43 AM
Reply #4 on: Oct 26, 2012, 03:56:43 AM
Q
Quote
Oh and the way it is today; everything can be found to be a ripoff of something else.

Ecclesiastes 1:9


JPredator
Oct 26, 2012, 08:33:07 AM
Reply #5 on: Oct 26, 2012, 08:33:07 AM
Q
They share very similar scenes and i dont doubt that Anerson was influenced by some of the early unused ideas from the first Alien (like the pyramid).

That however does not explain why Prometheus has literally the same scenes as AVP.
Example: The excavation, the team briefing where no one knows why they are there, Weyland being on the trip, the idea of using the Chariots of the Gods concept, the two characters (the nerd and the bully) getting lost together and bonding, Weyland dying by an Alien, the last scene where an Alien bursts out of another, etc.....

This is all too much to be a coincidance and even if these ideas where in place years before AVP, there is simply no excuse to use the EXACT same set up of a previous film.


ChrisPachi
Oct 26, 2012, 09:02:52 AM
Reply #6 on: Oct 26, 2012, 09:02:52 AM
Q
This is all too much to be a coincidance and even if these ideas where in place years before AVP, there is simply no excuse to use the EXACT same set up of a previous film.

There is an excuse...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Seriously though, the initial setup isn't terrible. As Sil pointed out, these ideas appear in a lot of sci-fi films and they work for the most part.

« Last Edit: Oct 26, 2012, 09:06:27 AM by ChrisPachi »

JPredator
Oct 26, 2012, 09:39:35 AM
Reply #7 on: Oct 26, 2012, 09:39:35 AM
Q
LOL

its not the premise thats the problem. Its the set up of the film which follows AVP to the extent of having very similar scenes.


Infected
Oct 26, 2012, 10:02:28 AM
Reply #8 on: Oct 26, 2012, 10:02:28 AM
Q
So Cameron and Scott wanted to do Alien5 together?  ::)


Imagine that......


JPredator
Oct 26, 2012, 10:21:11 AM
Reply #9 on: Oct 26, 2012, 10:21:11 AM
Q
yeah imagine that.

Although if it followed Ressurection im not sure it would have been worthwhile despite who was involved


Valaquen
Oct 26, 2012, 10:25:50 AM
Reply #10 on: Oct 26, 2012, 10:25:50 AM
Q
Cameron said he had begun work on an Alien 5 with "another writer," so there's at least a sentence-long outline. Mayhaps.


Jango1201
Oct 26, 2012, 10:52:38 AM
Reply #11 on: Oct 26, 2012, 10:52:38 AM
Q
They share very similar scenes and i dont doubt that Anerson was influenced by some of the early unused ideas from the first Alien (like the pyramid).

That however does not explain why Prometheus has literally the same scenes as AVP.
Example: The excavation, the team briefing where no one knows why they are there, Weyland being on the trip, the idea of using the Chariots of the Gods concept, the two characters (the nerd and the bully) getting lost together and bonding, Weyland dying by an Alien, the last scene where an Alien bursts out of another, etc.....

This is all too much to be a coincidance and even if these ideas where in place years before AVP, there is simply no excuse to use the EXACT same set up of a previous film.

Don't forget the folding chairs...


bishoop
Oct 26, 2012, 11:05:42 AM
Reply #12 on: Oct 26, 2012, 11:05:42 AM
Q
They share very similar scenes and i dont doubt that Anerson was influenced by some of the early unused ideas from the first Alien (like the pyramid).

That however does not explain why Prometheus has literally the same scenes as AVP.
Example: The excavation, the team briefing where no one knows why they are there, Weyland being on the trip, the idea of using the Chariots of the Gods concept, the two characters (the nerd and the bully) getting lost together and bonding, Weyland dying by an Alien, the last scene where an Alien bursts out of another, etc.....

This is all too much to be a coincidance and even if these ideas where in place years before AVP, there is simply no excuse to use the EXACT same set up of a previous film.

complete list ;D
-Foreshadowing opening set many years before events of film (AvP unrated cut only)
-Scientists discover signs designed to lure humans to a hidden place where perverse alien-ish things will happen to them
-Archaeological dig
-Group of scientists/mercs for mission to undisclosed destination funded by Weyland are assembled in the cargo hold of the ship by stern Company suit, and then briefed by Weyland about what they hope to find/how it could be a historic discovery for mankind, before archaeologists comment on the power point hieroglyphs seen in different ancient cultures around the world.
-Dying Weyland founder, who has designs on immortality, accompanies the crew despite being in very bad health.
-The female protagonist talks about her fathers death.
-Giant pyramid like temple structure discovered.
-Holographic projection of the structure is seen.
-One of the mercs is challenged by the female protagonist regarding taking weapons to the site.
-Journey to the site in armoured tractor type vehicles
-Enter Giger-esque interior of structure searching with torches and find ancient language carved into walls and someone asks 'can you read this?'
-The depiction of a xenomorph on the wall.
-One of the team activates the structure - thus creating sequence of catastrophic events.
-Team gets accidentally separated, the two that don’t get along (science nerd and wannabe hard man) get cut off from main group, are attacked by face creatures and die horribly. (plus sim to the two who are cut off from the others in the sacrificial chamber are attacked by face creatures)
-Discover 7ft+ ancient aliens who wear environmental face masks and create/breed alien life forms, were once worshiped as Gods by humans 
-Alien in cryogenic sleep is awakened (queen/engineer)
-Ancient aliens are hostile to humans - Weyland is killed by one
-Female protagonist tries to save the survivors, and humanity itself, from the alien threat.
-Female protagonist is only human survivor to escape destruction - which prevents spread of the alien destruction on earth (Pyramid blowing up/Prometheus crashing into the Engineer's ship)
-Main alien also survives destruction (queen/engineer) and attacks her before another alien intervenes saving the female protagonist (predator/giant face hugger)
-Female protagonist escapes environment but ultimate fate is uncertain.
-Final chest burst scene & new look xeno emerges from an ancient alien. The final shot is of the chestburster screaming into the camera.


wmmvrrvrrmm
Oct 26, 2012, 11:13:14 AM
Reply #13 on: Oct 26, 2012, 11:13:14 AM
Q
For me the big telltale scene is where we're looking at something in space, in AVP it's an alien queen's head transforming into a satellite, and in Prometheus it's a sun appearing across the surface of a planet revealing itself to be an engine of the Prometheus, both as the camera view rotates around each one



 

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