Prometheus Writers Audio Commentary Preview

Started by ikarop, Sep 23, 2012, 04:33:02 PM

Author
Prometheus Writers Audio Commentary Preview (Read 71,588 times)

Vickers

Quote from: ShadowPred on Sep 25, 2012, 06:46:19 AM
That you can't name one single movie that has what you are arguing for. If I were to say that some movies have so and so, I would definitely be able to name at least one of them.

Fine.

Lost in Translation > A relationship where both characters grew.
Shelter > Mentor/student type relationship where the younger character grew and they ended up together.
As Good As It Gets > A relationship where both characters grew and ended up together.

Relatively mainstream films depicting relationships with an age gap in a healthy/positive light.

ShadowPred

I don't see what was stopping you from posting that before.

SpeedyMaxx

The whole insane goo color/plagiarism discussion's starting to sound pretty good.

SM

I've not seen Shelter, so I'll take your word for it, but Lost In Translation and As Good As It Gets don't really qualify with what we're talking about here.

Neither have the teacher/ student thing, and Lost... starts to veer into the sordid and therefore unhealthy because she has a husband already.

Bat Chain Puller

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Sep 24, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
I find nothing is as scary since being an uninitiated pre-Alien young person. But there are plenty of hipster-larva out there that are unable to hide their squeamishness caused by seeing a vagina/penis eel infiltrate the security of a space suit and orally rape it's occupants. Same thing with the Med-pod scene. Pound for pound there was more iconicly creepy/disturbing scenes in Prometheus. It's the perceived success rate per individual fan that calls into question whether it worked or not. (and deconstructed ad nauseum online.)

We're clearly going to have to agree to disagree. :)

The best possible outcome really. If only all disagreements could end in such a way.


Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
Hammerpede stuff was brutal, but I go to watch a 'Predator' film for brutality. I go to see an 'Alien' film for nightmarish viciousness. Ultimately, the famous advert with the reversed audio on it turned out to sound a heck of a lot more disturbing than what we actually got - which I think I predicted would be what might happen. Either way, I didn't find it scary and the sight of it going in the mouth cuts away relatively quick. It looks like instant death.

The concept of the scene was chilling, but had I been in charge there would have been no music. Just the close, intimate sound of the struggle and suffocation. I do agree with you that the reverse audio left a lot more to the imagination. And mine imagined something a lot more creepy than what we ended up with.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
Compare that with, say, the insectoid pit in the remake of 'King Kong'. Remember how the guy dies by being gradually consumed by giant maggot-like creatures? There was a whole bunch of stuff in that scene which was scarier by several magnitudes than anything we saw in 'Prometheus' - and that goes for the Hammerpede scene, too. It's violent, yes. Not disturbing/scary.

I just thought the insect pit scene was awesome. Scary never entered my mind. I suppose for a younger audience member, sure. I did love the slow, hopeless consumption of Lumpy the cook. It was disturbing because it made you feel what it would be like. Credit to the actor and the effects team ... and for having the balls to go in close and linger on the proceedings. The music also was low key and hauntingly serine for what was unfolding on screen. By and by I thought both scenes were sufficiently chilling but again, I can't say either was truly scary.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
The 'abortion' scene was better, but again... Relatively clean. It wasn't nearly as tense as I thought it might be. The most alarming thing about it seemed to be the precarious hold of the robotic device on the creature, rather than the removal, but nothing happens with that.

It could have been bloodier. I especially liked the calm, inquisitive "it's finally out" beat ... where it seems mostly a benign little tumor thing ... then the sac breaks and all that amniotic fluid splashes down into the gaping incision in her belly. Alarming and nasty to say the least. Again, the concept of what is happening is just perfectly insane and a welcome addition to the other iconic scenes through out the series.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
But as I've written elsewhere, none of this would have necessarily mattered if the production team had been honest and said they were just going to try and do the best they could. Instead, Ridley Scott warned in several interviews that there would be things which would make Lambert's death pale by comparison, said he was going "to scare the shit" out of us and that there was supposedly no way to make the original Alien design effective - with HR Giger, himself, on set - only to apparently perceive that the Deacon looked miles better.

That's why 'Prometheus' ends up being a bit of a disappointment on the horror film front - which is precisely what it was being hyped up as (when not having the emphasis placed on how supposedly revolutionary, epic and full of hard science it would be).

But you can always trust Ridley to be Ridley on the subject of the crazy things that quite frequently come flying out of his mouth. He is almost a carnival barker. He's trying to get you to go into the tent. He's also writing checks against Alien and having to deal with the scare conversion between 1979 and 2012 audiences.

I was never convinced that Ridley felt the original Alien design worked as a man in a suit. The way he shot the creature worked wonderfully because he didn't want to show too much. I have no idea what he was thinking with Deacon. It worked for me because it was just enough an alien ... yet not at all.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
Like I said a few posts back, the changes from the original Alien to other creature designs could have made sense if there was a legitimate plot reason for that, but it honestly looks like the reason for that was change for the sake of itself. They broke the if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it rule.

I felt there was enough reason for the change. There were no eggs to be found. No facehuggers. So it stands to reason that the very unique process that led to the Deacon would result in such a unique creature.

I'm actually more worried for future episodes where Trilobites and Deacons will be the new facehuggers and Aliens. I hope the film makers honor what feels like an intentionally different looking beast and not fall back on them as 'the new normal.'

What alarms me the most is that the Deacons cry at the end is virtually the same as the cry we heard in the tunnel right before we saw the holographic video images of the Engineers running for their lives.  :-\

SpeedyMaxx

I never heard a cry during the holograph sequence, or at least, I never associated any noise with that.  I'll have to go back and look.

I doubt that they'll just swap out the old monsters for the new ones.  I think they know that's not feasible.  I think it's more likely they'll just keep making more weird shit, more new monsters.  Which is fine with me.  The giant trilobite in particular strikes me as a bit of a one-off - or you only bring it out for Christmas, that is to say, the third act.

zuzuki

I listened to the whole commentary yesterday and it seems that besides removing the classic xeno,eggs,facehuggers the scripts weren't to different. Also it seems that in the script there were a lot of character build up for everyone. Some of that got filmed,and some of that just cut from the shooting script before they started filming. One big thing that keeps repeating in the commentary was: '' we had a scene to better flesh out a character, but ridley left it on the cutting room floor,we had more character development but ridley..., the scene was bigger and provided more info on a certain thing but ridely...., we had this in the script and we shot it but ridley didn't want to waste time on too much talk and wanted to go straight to the action(i heard this specific line about 3 times) so he deleted it from the movie''

The scene with alternate Firfield was cut it seems not because of the monster cgi design, but because it ruined the pacing of the movie and the scene where shaw finds weyland on the ship.
The reason why the weyland -yacht scene was cut was not because of budgetary reasons but because they didn't want to reveal that weyland was on the ship too early in the movie. the water scene that was cut because of monetary reason was the one with the submarine and the city ruins in the sea.

There are a lot of cool things, and my impression is again that the script wasn't bad at all, but the edits done in post production spoiled the end result. Either way i still enjoyed the movie and i would rate it as 7.5 or even a 8.5 considering all the stuff that was cut. Hopefully we will get after a few years a extended cut, and the sequels will add more to this new mythology

And another thing. The alien prequel was more expensive to make( just look at all the concept art with all those massive rooms and scenery). And it would have been a direct prequel to alien. This way the movie goes in another direction and starts a whole new franchise- big money here, 3 movies instead of one

SM

Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Sep 25, 2012, 07:01:30 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Sep 24, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
I find nothing is as scary since being an uninitiated pre-Alien young person. But there are plenty of hipster-larva out there that are unable to hide their squeamishness caused by seeing a vagina/penis eel infiltrate the security of a space suit and orally rape it's occupants. Same thing with the Med-pod scene. Pound for pound there was more iconicly creepy/disturbing scenes in Prometheus. It's the perceived success rate per individual fan that calls into question whether it worked or not. (and deconstructed ad nauseum online.)

We're clearly going to have to agree to disagree. :)

The best possible outcome really. If only all disagreements could end in such a way.


Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
Hammerpede stuff was brutal, but I go to watch a 'Predator' film for brutality. I go to see an 'Alien' film for nightmarish viciousness. Ultimately, the famous advert with the reversed audio on it turned out to sound a heck of a lot more disturbing than what we actually got - which I think I predicted would be what might happen. Either way, I didn't find it scary and the sight of it going in the mouth cuts away relatively quick. It looks like instant death.

The concept of the scene was chilling, but had I been in charge there would have been no music. Just the close, intimate sound of the struggle and suffocation. I do agree with you that the reverse audio left a lot more to the imagination. And mine imagined something a lot more creepy than what we ended up with.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
Compare that with, say, the insectoid pit in the remake of 'King Kong'. Remember how the guy dies by being gradually consumed by giant maggot-like creatures? There was a whole bunch of stuff in that scene which was scarier by several magnitudes than anything we saw in 'Prometheus' - and that goes for the Hammerpede scene, too. It's violent, yes. Not disturbing/scary.

I just thought the insect pit scene was awesome. Scary never entered my mind. I suppose for a younger audience member, sure. I did love the slow, hopeless consumption of Lumpy the cook. It was disturbing because it made you feel what it would be like. Credit to the actor and the effects team ... and for having the balls to go in close and linger on the proceedings. The music also was low key and hauntingly serine for what was unfolding on screen. By and by I thought both scenes were sufficiently chilling but again, I can't say either was truly scary.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
The 'abortion' scene was better, but again... Relatively clean. It wasn't nearly as tense as I thought it might be. The most alarming thing about it seemed to be the precarious hold of the robotic device on the creature, rather than the removal, but nothing happens with that.

It could have been bloodier. I especially liked the calm, inquisitive "it's finally out" beat ... where it seems mostly a benign little tumor thing ... then the sac breaks and all that amniotic fluid splashes down into the gaping incision in her belly. Alarming and nasty to say the least. Again, the concept of what is happening is just perfectly insane and a welcome addition to the other iconic scenes through out the series.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
But as I've written elsewhere, none of this would have necessarily mattered if the production team had been honest and said they were just going to try and do the best they could. Instead, Ridley Scott warned in several interviews that there would be things which would make Lambert's death pale by comparison, said he was going "to scare the shit" out of us and that there was supposedly no way to make the original Alien design effective - with HR Giger, himself, on set - only to apparently perceive that the Deacon looked miles better.

That's why 'Prometheus' ends up being a bit of a disappointment on the horror film front - which is precisely what it was being hyped up as (when not having the emphasis placed on how supposedly revolutionary, epic and full of hard science it would be).

But you can always trust Ridley to be Ridley on the subject of the crazy things that quite frequently come flying out of his mouth. He is almost a carnival barker. He's trying to get you to go into the tent. He's also writing checks against Alien and having to deal with the scare conversion between 1979 and 2012 audiences.

I was never convinced that Ridley felt the original Alien design worked as a man in a suit. The way he shot the creature worked wonderfully because he didn't want to show too much. I have no idea what he was thinking with Deacon. It worked for me because it was just enough an alien ... yet not at all.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Sep 25, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
Like I said a few posts back, the changes from the original Alien to other creature designs could have made sense if there was a legitimate plot reason for that, but it honestly looks like the reason for that was change for the sake of itself. They broke the if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it rule.

I felt there was enough reason for the change. There were no eggs to be found. No facehuggers. So it stands to reason that the very unique process that led to the Deacon would result in such a unique creature.

I'm actually more worried for future episodes where Trilobites and Deacons will be the new facehuggers and Aliens. I hope the film makers honor what feels like an intentionally different looking beast and not fall back on them as 'the new normal.'

What alarms me the most is that the Deacons cry at the end is virtually the same as the cry we heard in the tunnel right before we saw the holographic video images of the Engineers running for their lives.  :-\

Main problem is scary varies so much for different people.  I can't honestly remember the last time a film scared me.  Things like Blair Witch or Seven I found incredibly tense, but I don't know if I call them scary.  Bits of Prometheus were tense and the abortion scene was uncomfortable to say the least, but again I wouldn't call it scary.

My wife however, isn't a fan of horror flicks so when she does watch one, she'd call it scary.

Scary is shit that gives me nightmares.  Which only happened with a couple of films a very long time ago as a kid.

SpeedyMaxx

The banal thing about it is, the calculation Ridley made on plot vs. character in the pacing has been made with thousands of movies over the years, including some very, very good ones - including Alien itself.  There are cases where I wish they'd kept stuff in on every film I've seen like that, but also cases where I see why they made the cut despite something being a nice scene.  Prometheus is no different.  Happens all the time.

I do agree with zuzuki that the final film significantly opens up the franchise to possibilities.  I also think that a lot of hard bottom line calculations were made re: screening allocation, ratings vs. time compromises, and the future of the series.  And in the end, I think even after what was clearly some violence done to some of the better scenes for the sake of this math, Scott found the correct equation for that end result.  I really loved the final film, but I'm definitely looking forward to a longer cut.

The Weyland yacht scene still sounds so incredibly batshit and sublime.  I wish there'd been a way to do it without spoiling the plot twist for most of the general audience.

Space Sweeper

Space Sweeper

#204
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 25, 2012, 03:53:46 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Sep 25, 2012, 03:31:29 AM
Honestly, it didn't take me long to sense that Halloway was a tumbling dickweed anyway.
I think, because of Cvalda, I went in with that notion already pre-programmed and utterly unshakeable once the film got on with it.


©Cvaldaware2012 - The Leading Product in Cult of Personality Programming

Prime113

Quote from: Space Sweeper on Sep 25, 2012, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 25, 2012, 03:53:46 AM
Quote from: RaisingCane on Sep 25, 2012, 03:31:29 AM
Honestly, it didn't take me long to sense that Halloway was a tumbling dickweed anyway.
I think, because of Cvalda, I went in with that notion already pre-programmed and utterly unshakeable once the film got on with it.
©Cvaldaware2012 - The Leading Product in Cult of Personality Programming

Really, Val? Really?

That...product seems to be pretty popular around here.

coolbreeze

Perhaps it's where Bioware got the idea for indoctrination?  :laugh:

I hope you got some credit for that Cvalda.  :P

Gash

Was a time when practically all leading men were older than their leading ladies in film.

Was also a time when avuncular characters were a mainstay of TV, before such relationships started to be portrayed as creepy, probably thanks to alt comedy trying it's hardest to ruin convention in the 1980s.

Cvalda

Quote from: Space Sweeper on Sep 25, 2012, 09:22:15 AM
©Cvaldaware2012 - The Leading Product in Cult of Personality Programming
someday i'll get you too

SpeedyMaxx

Quote from: Gash on Sep 25, 2012, 05:37:20 PM
Was a time when practically all leading men were older than their leading ladies in film.

Was also a time when avuncular characters were a mainstay of TV, before such relationships started to be portrayed as creepy, probably thanks to alt comedy trying it's hardest to ruin convention in the 1980s.

This is too meta for me bro

In all seriousness, yes, there was such a time.  And Bogart and Bacall were and are a legendary Hollywood couple despite an age difference that is still a tad unseemly - I think she was just out of high school.  But the teacher/student dynamic is a different kind of take on this relationship.  And as expressed in the early draft here, and when explored in film or television, it's generally done so in a way that highlighted the disproportionate power balance which the student - usually the woman - has to overcome.  One example off the top of my head, Julia Roberts in The Pelican Brief loses her lover/mentor and foundation and most forge ahead on her own.  But that's the most benign take I can recall.  Almost invariably it's presented as being a somewhat negative relationship that the heroine/student must emancipate herself, either violently or organically, from to truly come into her own.  I suspect it would've been done much the same in Prometheus with Shaw and an older Holloway.  I personally have no problem with that, and think it would've been an interesting dynamic to play out within the film.  But I never had much of a problem with Logan Marshall-Green either.  He did the job.

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