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Author Topic: Why do people idolize Wolf so much?  (Read 26666 times)

SM
Jul 09, 2012, 05:57:36 AM
Reply #30 on: Jul 09, 2012, 05:57:36 AM
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My point is...you fight on the aliens' terms (get into melee combat), you risk a horrible death, but advanced species have the option of not fighting on the aliens' terms.   

It's not melee combat so much as the Alien forcing the protagonist into close quarters. The Predator had to go into the sewer system to root them out, and is forced into taking them on on their terms.  Same in Aliens with the atmosphere processor.  You want to kill them?  You need to go in that the dark place where there's an arseload of places for them to hide and lay ambushes.

Can't imagine you'd ever catch them running straight towards you over open ground.


happypred
Jul 09, 2012, 07:11:34 AM
Reply #31 on: Jul 09, 2012, 07:11:34 AM
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Aliens doesn't abandon the concept that aliens are good at ambushing prey. That's how the aliens wipe out a large portion of the CM detachment in the reactor chamber. However, ambushing is a tactic heavily dependant on the environment and the enemy's level of caution. It simply doesn't work in a lot of situations. Enemy won't always blunder into locations suitable for a xeno ambush. 

Defending against ambush isn't that hard with the correct knowledge, especially with a vision mode that highlights aliens in bright green against a dark background. For an experienced xeno-hunter, Wolf is really oblivious to danger. For instance, early on he fails to spot the alien on the roof. One would think that he wouldn't miss the big green blob hanging from the ceiling, but he does...just as the national guard dude misses the alien next to the car. It's just bad writing.   

For aliens vs. "advanced species with powerful guns" to be balanced, the writer would have to employ plot devices such as:
1) Colonial Marines have no experience with Ripley's aliens
2) Amateur Gorman lets his men blunder into the reactor chamber, Sarge collects ammo
3) Pesky humans steal the predators' shoulder cannons
4) Predators and aliens fight inside a cramped pyramid (perfect environment for wall-crawling aliens)

It's not melee combat so much as the Alien forcing the protagonist into close quarters.
The aliens didn't really force Wolf to go into the sewers. Going into the sewers was Wolf's attempt at keeping his mission covert...rather silly in light of how things turned out (he strung up a skinned dude, aliens ended up infesting the entire town)

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Can't imagine you'd ever catch them running straight towards you over open ground.
Quite easy really...

1) when predators destroy the environment where the aliens are trying to hide, flushing out the aliens

2) when the queen realises the preds could just blow up the hive and orders her drones to attack

and perhaps the easiest example...

3) when predators decide to breed aliens in an evironment that doesn't favour the aliens. Instead of a pyramid, they could fight them in their version of the Colosseum   
 
Aliens use cover. Great. Predators can blow up that cover. Aliens can't really force predators to fight on their terms. Predators choose to fight on their terms (i.e. ritual hunting or unwillingness to draw too much attention).

When predators go all out (not really all out but close enough), what happens is something similar to the first few pages of the AvP War comic

EDIT: Forgot to post the pics
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
 

« Last Edit: Jul 09, 2012, 08:02:22 AM by happypred »

DaddyYautja
Jul 09, 2012, 07:16:08 AM
Reply #32 on: Jul 09, 2012, 07:16:08 AM
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Why is that people don't understand that Wolf is only "elite" and "badass" is because the only 'enemies' he faced were incompetent Cletus-Morphs. Where did people get this from? COuldn't they see that Wolf was beating up mentally-challenged pseudo-aliens.

I googled "Hick Alien" to use a pic as a joke and this is what came up.



SM
Jul 09, 2012, 07:18:47 AM
Reply #33 on: Jul 09, 2012, 07:18:47 AM
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The aliens didn't really force Wolf to go into the sewers.

No way else to kill them.

Short of nuking them from orbit.

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Predators choose to fight on their terms (i.e. ritual hunting or unwillingness to draw too much attention).

Which only continues to highlight the stupidity of Predators - at least the ones we see in the flicks.  How they tie their own shoelaces is beyond me; nevermind flying through space.


happypred
Jul 09, 2012, 07:27:35 AM
Reply #34 on: Jul 09, 2012, 07:27:35 AM
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No way else to kill them. Short of nuking them from orbit.
You wouldn't need something that powerful for the aliens in Gunnison's sewers. The aliens seemed to cluster in a fairly small area. You could plant a few explosive devices to flush them out. Your primary concern would be that you might kill them all (none left to hunt if you were so inclined)

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Which only continues to highlight the stupidity of Predators - at least the ones we see in the flicks.  How they tie their own shoelaces is beyond me; nevermind flying through space.
If predators breed aliens in an environment that favours the predators, the aliens would just get splattered...no sport in that is there?

Even handicapping themselves, preds seem to do OK to very well against aliens...


DaddyYautja
Jul 09, 2012, 07:33:13 AM
Reply #35 on: Jul 09, 2012, 07:33:13 AM
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]If predators breed aliens in an environment that favours the predators, the aliens would just get splattered...no sport in that is there?

Even handicapping themselves, preds seem to do OK to very well against aliens...

And this is why Predators sucked.
Those things got beat IN THEIR HOME.


whiterabbit
Jul 09, 2012, 10:54:18 AM
Reply #36 on: Jul 09, 2012, 10:54:18 AM
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If predators breed aliens in an environment that favours the predators, the aliens would just get splattered...no sport in that is there?

Even handicapping themselves, preds seem to do OK to very well against aliens...

And this is why Predators sucked.
Those things got beat IN THEIR HOME.
Not just that either. Nolan talked about how every season they comeback with new skills and new weapons... if this is true than are we to assume they were fighting with swords similar to the Tokugawa era sword found by the yakuza a few hundred years ago or that they really aren't that good at hunting.

That's kind of how our army functions over a few years. Takes a few good men, who normally don't grow up learning to kill and then turns them into killers and supplies them with the best economical equipment around. What I'm trying to get at is that aside from the technology gap between humans and predators, and the lesser important size gap, we aren't really that far away from them as far as traditional hunting skills are concerned.

Which bring up another idea I've had; could the predators be wealthy aristocrats? When you think about it in people terms, who really hunted like the predators on earth? Kings that's who. I think there is more to Royces Hemingway's quote than sheer face value. Predators can't all be hunters, someone must be maintaining their technology and society. If not, then are Predators in social decline? Being Nomads isn't too far out of the question if this is the case and Nomads do not advance all that well which could explain away the eons.


SM
Jul 09, 2012, 10:57:17 AM
Reply #37 on: Jul 09, 2012, 10:57:17 AM
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You wouldn't need something that powerful for the aliens in Gunnison's sewers. The aliens seemed to cluster in a fairly small area. You could plant a few explosive devices to flush them out.

The magic word is 'seemed'.  They have a habit of being resilient.  350 tonnes of hot lead just pisses them off.  You'd want to be sure these explosives actually blew them to pieces.  And that they'd let you plant them in the first place.


Novak 1334
Jul 09, 2012, 12:49:42 PM
Reply #38 on: Jul 09, 2012, 12:49:42 PM
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Wolf certainly ain't no Broken Tusk, that guy knew how to kill Aliens


happypred
Jul 10, 2012, 01:50:51 PM
Reply #39 on: Jul 10, 2012, 01:50:51 PM
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The magic word is 'seemed'.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that in the sewer battle, Wolf faces the majority (if not all) of the aliens in Gunnison

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They have a habit of being resilient.  350 tonnes of hot lead just pisses them off.  You'd want to be sure these explosives actually blew them to pieces.
1) Resilience to explosives and resilience to hot lead aren't really comparable
2) If you're not inclined to outright kill them with explosives, your aim could simply be to flush them out of their cover

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And that they'd let you plant them in the first place.
When Wolf sets up those laser mines, he could've avoided trapping himself inside the containment zone. In addition to using laser mines, he could've tossed up a few explosive mines similar to the laser mines, or he could've used laser mines capable of doubling as explosive mines.

Even simpler...six "cleaner" preds are sent instead of just one. Wolf does well enough by himself. If six Wolf preds had fought in the sewer battle, the predalien and his pack of aliens would've been massacred. Heck, two would probably be enough to seal the deal. Six would just be overkill.

« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2012, 02:00:00 PM by happypred »

SM
Jul 10, 2012, 11:59:54 PM
Reply #40 on: Jul 10, 2012, 11:59:54 PM
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Wolf does well against Aliens who are seemingly incapable of fighting back.

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1) Resilience to explosives and resilience to hot lead aren't really comparable

I was thinking more about them being buried under rubble after the explosion.


happypred
Jul 11, 2012, 03:45:40 AM
Reply #41 on: Jul 11, 2012, 03:45:40 AM
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Wolf does well against Aliens who are seemingly incapable of fighting back.
Yes, but as noted, Wolf's behaviour is far from "professional"

If you upgrade the aliens' intelligence, it would only be fair to upgrade Wolfs' intelligence. As I've said, he should be like the predator version of Jason Bourne.

If both sides get higher intelligence, the end result would likely be similar. 6 intelligent Wolf preds vs. an intelligent predalien and a handful of intelligent aliens would still result in a massacre of the xenos. Aliens can be smart...predators, but I doubt that they can outthink a technological race like Predators...or Homo sapiens for that matter

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I was thinking more about them being buried under rubble after the explosion.
OK...resilience to being crushed by rubble and resilience to being burned by hot lead aren't really comparable
Of course, if they're trapped under rubble, they'd be rather vulnerable


whiterabbit
Jul 11, 2012, 03:50:01 AM
Reply #42 on: Jul 11, 2012, 03:50:01 AM
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Hey guys, could it be possible that wolf was only there to kill the bastardization that was the Predalien? Sure the movie showed him erasing all evidence of the alien outbreak with the blue goo but I mean really, that was a long shot. I think he was just there to cover up the fact that his team got their asses handed to them by the aliens. That's why he was the only predator who showed up. :)


happypred
Jul 11, 2012, 03:54:05 AM
Reply #43 on: Jul 11, 2012, 03:54:05 AM
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The predalien kills 3 predators. It could be said that the idiot predator who shoots his ship kills himself...but the predalien finishes him off. That's more than Grid's 2.

In the extended DVD edition, Wolf doesn't know about the predalien until he arrives on earth. 


SM
Jul 11, 2012, 04:15:34 AM
Reply #44 on: Jul 11, 2012, 04:15:34 AM
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OK...resilience to being crushed by rubble and resilience to being burned by hot lead aren't really comparable

It's not about being burned (though that's obviously going to hurt) - it's having 350 tonnes of anything dropped on your bonce.

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I think he was just there to cover up the fact that his team got their asses handed to them by the aliens. That's why he was the only predator who showed up.

Why would they send one Predator to kill an Alien that's already kill three Predators?


 

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