Topic: The alien skulls on the trophy wall in AvP:R have horns

[MrSpaceJockey]

Except for the inclusion of Michael Bishop in Alien 3.

[Riddick9]

It obviously is a space jockey...I don't see it as being anything else.

The canonicity, of this however, to avoid any arguments, is, as Xenomrph would say, "Your opinion man."

And why will he go apeshit?

Xenomrph is among the group that considers most, if not all, of the EU and films interconnected and canon.  Including, of course, the AVP films.

Well yeah bro it was meant to be  Space Jockey by the Directors of AVP2. They thought in Aliens that was his skull and that the trunk was part of his body. Ridley designed the Space Jockey to look like Humans so this offically isn't a Space Jockey's Skull if we go by Prometheus which is a sequel to Alien. That is unless Ridley decides that the Jockey seen in Alien is a different species then seen in Prometheus but as far as I know he said they are the same species....I mean why else bother with Prometheus's Engineers having the same exact ships, and control pod from Alien?

Since Predators always take Game's Skulls and that is a trophy room full of skulls and their would be no reason why a Predator would leave a skull of such a powerful foe behind we can't count this throne room scene either retconned or non canon or pretend that skull is another species. 

[Sinister Serenity]

Except for the inclusion of Michael Bishop in Alien 3.

Well... There you go. This is why I don't like AVP being canon.
Prometheus at least made some sense when compared with the Alien films. It explored the Engineers.
Since it was directed by Ridley Scott himself, I consider it more canon automatically than the AVPs's

[Riddick9]

Too many plot holes to be canon.

Though bishop being peter's dad isn't a bad idea.

It could work if you forced it like Xeno tries but Ridley Scott has never seen AVP 1 or 2 and I seriously doubt he wants them to connect. Didn't a producer of Prometheus or Ridley say they aren't connected?

The history on the Weyland website doesn't mention anything of Charles Weyland so I believe Fox doesn't want it to connect considering AVP2 didn't do that well at the box office and holds a 12 percent with critics and 30 something percent with fans.

I believe their ashamed. 

[Xenomrph]

Except for the inclusion of Michael Bishop in Alien 3.

That's not a plot-hole, though. Michael Bishop and Charles Weyland are different people.

So much for the horned alien skulls.

In response to the "That's not a jockey skull and the Preds don't take helmets" argument, why wouldn't they take helmets? They obviously take more than just skulls, what with the weapons they've taken off of enemies, like the pistol from Predator 2. Why wouldn't they take masks and helmets as well? It's no different than American soldiers taking pit-helmets from nazis in WWII.

Name one Predator film that they took a Helmet? Now how many times have they taken a skull? How many Skulls are in that trophy room vs. Helmets?

Why would the Predator not take the skull of a Space Jockey but instead take it's Helmet? They always take Skulls in every film I've seen and every comic I've read.

Fact is the directors of the film said in the commentary that it's a Space Jockey Skull.

Now that Ridley has designed the Space Jockey's the way he wanted or envisioned then it's not accurate anymore and has been retconned.

Then again, the AVP films and the Alien films are not officially connected.

Actually officially they are connected.

As for the head being different, apparently we can accept Ridley Scott's "authorial intent" that the creatures in 'Prometheus' are the same as the one in 'Alien', but the moment we try to accept the Brothers Strause's "authorial intent" that the skull is a Space Jockey, there's a problem? Buh-wha?

There's plenty of ways to reconcile it, anyway. Maybe the head in AvPR is older, and the mask is biomechanical and fuses with the Engineer's "skull", creating the appearance we see in 'Alien'. It's really hard to dispute that the Engineers in 'Prometheus' looked different from what was in 'Alien', after all.
Alternately, perhaps they're different creatures entirely - 'Prometheus' hints at the Engineers' creators, maybe the Engineers modeled their tech on what was seen in 'Alien' in homage of their creators. That would explain why the suits, tech, and even the Juggernaut itself in 'Prometheus' looked stylistically somewhat-different from what was in 'Alien'.

[Sinister Serenity]

Except for the inclusion of Michael Bishop in Alien 3.

That's not a plot-hole, though. Michael Bishop and Charles Weyland are different people.

So much for the horned alien skulls.

In response to the "That's not a jockey skull and the Preds don't take helmets" argument, why wouldn't they take helmets? They obviously take more than just skulls, what with the weapons they've taken off of enemies, like the pistol from Predator 2. Why wouldn't they take masks and helmets as well? It's no different than American soldiers taking pit-helmets from nazis in WWII.

Name one Predator film that they took a Helmet? Now how many times have they taken a skull? How many Skulls are in that trophy room vs. Helmets?

Why would the Predator not take the skull of a Space Jockey but instead take it's Helmet? They always take Skulls in every film I've seen and every comic I've read.

Fact is the directors of the film said in the commentary that it's a Space Jockey Skull.

Now that Ridley has designed the Space Jockey's the way he wanted or envisioned then it's not accurate anymore and has been retconned.

Then again, the AVP films and the Alien films are not officially connected.

Actually officially they are connected.

As for the head being different, apparently we can accept Ridley Scott's "authorial intent" that the creatures in 'Prometheus' are the same as the one in 'Alien', but the moment we try to accept the Brothers Strause's "authorial intent" that the skull is a Space Jockey, there's a problem? Buh-wha?

There's plenty of ways to reconcile it, anyway. Maybe the head in AvPR is older, and the mask is biomechanical and fuses with the Engineer's "skull", creating the appearance we see in 'Alien'. It's really hard to dispute that the Engineers in 'Prometheus' looked different from what was in 'Alien', after all.
Alternately, perhaps they're different creatures entirely - 'Prometheus' hints at the Engineers' creators, maybe the Engineers modeled their tech on what was seen in 'Alien' in homage of their creators. That would explain why the suits, tech, and even the Juggernaut itself in 'Prometheus' looked stylistically somewhat-different from what was in 'Alien'.

I'm not going to be an ass and crush your opinion.
I'm curious though, why do you think they are connected?

[Riddick9]

I used to like Alien vs. Predator 1

Granted it had some terrible things in it but it wasn't the worst.

Then I seen that piece of shit AVP2 and wanted to throw up. Now I wish neither of those films existed.  Some of the EU stuff is some of the worst too and best forgotten.

I have my own little Alien Universe myself

I like to think Prometheus, Alien, Aliens are the only films in the franchise. I don't mind if Predator 1 and Predators exist in that Universe either and I'd like to see a good Alien vs. Predator film that takes place in the future that involves the Colonial Marines but directed by someone with half a brain and not that son of a bitch Paul WS. Anderson who's one of the worst directors on Earth and those Brothers who are just awful!

I will say I like Xeno's Signature and I agree with that to an extent.

We all have our own personal canons in our heads of what we want and what we hate.

[MrSpaceJockey]

Yay, argument settled!

[Sinister Serenity]

I used to like Alien vs. Predator 1

Granted it had some terrible things in it but it wasn't the worst.

Then I seen that piece of shit AVP2 and wanted to throw up. Now I wish neither of those films existed.  Some of the EU stuff is some of the worst too and best forgotten.

I have my own little Alien Universe myself

I like to think Prometheus, Alien, Aliens are the only films in the franchise. I don't mind if Predator 1 and Predators exist in that Universe either and I'd like to see a good Alien vs. Predator film that takes place in the future that involves the Colonial Marines but directed by someone with half a brain and not that son of a bitch Paul WS. Anderson who's one of the worst directors on Earth and those Brothers who are just awful!

I will say I like Xeno's Signature and I agree with that to an extent.

We all have our own personal canons in our heads of what we want and what we hate.

I think Alien 3 somewhat deserves canon. Sure it was not as good as Alien or Aliens, but the extended cut was damn good.
I actually enjoy it the more times I watch it.

[Riddick9]

Except for the inclusion of Michael Bishop in Alien 3.

That's not a plot-hole, though. Michael Bishop and Charles Weyland are different people.

So much for the horned alien skulls.

In response to the "That's not a jockey skull and the Preds don't take helmets" argument, why wouldn't they take helmets? They obviously take more than just skulls, what with the weapons they've taken off of enemies, like the pistol from Predator 2. Why wouldn't they take masks and helmets as well? It's no different than American soldiers taking pit-helmets from nazis in WWII.

Name one Predator film that they took a Helmet? Now how many times have they taken a skull? How many Skulls are in that trophy room vs. Helmets?

Why would the Predator not take the skull of a Space Jockey but instead take it's Helmet? They always take Skulls in every film I've seen and every comic I've read.

Fact is the directors of the film said in the commentary that it's a Space Jockey Skull.

Now that Ridley has designed the Space Jockey's the way he wanted or envisioned then it's not accurate anymore and has been retconned.

Then again, the AVP films and the Alien films are not officially connected.

Actually officially they are connected.

As for the head being different, apparently we can accept Ridley Scott's "authorial intent" that the creatures in 'Prometheus' are the same as the one in 'Alien', but the moment we try to accept the Brothers Strause's "authorial intent" that the skull is a Space Jockey, there's a problem? Buh-wha?

There's plenty of ways to reconcile it, anyway. Maybe the head in AvPR is older, and the mask is biomechanical and fuses with the Engineer's "skull", creating the appearance we see in 'Alien'. It's really hard to dispute that the Engineers in 'Prometheus' looked different from what was in 'Alien', after all.
Alternately, perhaps they're different creatures entirely - 'Prometheus' hints at the Engineers' creators, maybe the Engineers modeled their tech on what was seen in 'Alien' in homage of their creators. That would explain why the suits, tech, and even the Juggernaut itself in 'Prometheus' looked stylistically somewhat-different from what was in 'Alien'.

Dude you can't prove that they connected. Apparently I can't prove that they aren't either.

You can speculate how Charles Bishop Weyland is what ever to Peter but since it says nothing about him on the website and Peter Weyland is the one that created his company then both sides can argue until the sun comes up.

Maybe Fox or Ridley will give the official word on the internet or on Blu-ray.

However is it true you count the EU as canon? 

Wouldn't you rather just forget that piece of crap AVP2  and hope they dismiss it as canon?

I'd rather accept AVP1 as canon instead of that piece of crap AVP2 and it's Predalien.

Even the makers of Predators disown AVP1 and 2 and say it's not canon to their film. They don't count Predator 2 either but that's a good thing. 

I used to like Alien vs. Predator 1

Granted it had some terrible things in it but it wasn't the worst.

Then I seen that piece of shit AVP2 and wanted to throw up. Now I wish neither of those films existed.  Some of the EU stuff is some of the worst too and best forgotten.

I have my own little Alien Universe myself

I like to think Prometheus, Alien, Aliens are the only films in the franchise. I don't mind if Predator 1 and Predators exist in that Universe either and I'd like to see a good Alien vs. Predator film that takes place in the future that involves the Colonial Marines but directed by someone with half a brain and not that son of a bitch Paul WS. Anderson who's one of the worst directors on Earth and those Brothers who are just awful!

I will say I like Xeno's Signature and I agree with that to an extent.

We all have our own personal canons in our heads of what we want and what we hate.

I think Alien 3 somewhat deserves canon. Sure it was not as good as Alien or Aliens, but the extended cut was damn good.
I actually enjoy it the more times I watch it.

Oh I enjoy the film, matter of a fact I really love the special edition version.

I just hate they killed off Newt and Hicks.....and Ripley.

I thought the original idea for it was much better and I loved Newt and Hicks in the comics until they changed them to Billie and Wilks and made Ripley an Android. 

[Xenomrph]

I'm not going to be an ass and crush your opinion.
I'm curious though, why do you think they are connected?

Aside from having the titular Alien and Predator creatures? They've also got "Weyland" and "Yutani", and the special features on the AvP Requiem blu-ray have an entire "Weyland Yutani archive" written from the perspective of someone living "in-universe" and it references the events of the Alien, Predator, and AvP films. I mean shit, the AvP movies are more concretely connected to the Alien series than 'Prometheus' is.
Not to mention the directors of both AvP movies outright said their movies are meant to be connected to the Alien and Predator films.

I will say I like Xeno's Signature and I agree with that to an extent.

We all have our own personal canons in our heads of what we want and what we hate.

Bingo.

Except for the inclusion of Michael Bishop in Alien 3.

That's not a plot-hole, though. Michael Bishop and Charles Weyland are different people.

So much for the horned alien skulls.

In response to the "That's not a jockey skull and the Preds don't take helmets" argument, why wouldn't they take helmets? They obviously take more than just skulls, what with the weapons they've taken off of enemies, like the pistol from Predator 2. Why wouldn't they take masks and helmets as well? It's no different than American soldiers taking pit-helmets from nazis in WWII.

Name one Predator film that they took a Helmet? Now how many times have they taken a skull? How many Skulls are in that trophy room vs. Helmets?

Why would the Predator not take the skull of a Space Jockey but instead take it's Helmet? They always take Skulls in every film I've seen and every comic I've read.

Fact is the directors of the film said in the commentary that it's a Space Jockey Skull.

Now that Ridley has designed the Space Jockey's the way he wanted or envisioned then it's not accurate anymore and has been retconned.

Then again, the AVP films and the Alien films are not officially connected.

Actually officially they are connected.

As for the head being different, apparently we can accept Ridley Scott's "authorial intent" that the creatures in 'Prometheus' are the same as the one in 'Alien', but the moment we try to accept the Brothers Strause's "authorial intent" that the skull is a Space Jockey, there's a problem? Buh-wha?

There's plenty of ways to reconcile it, anyway. Maybe the head in AvPR is older, and the mask is biomechanical and fuses with the Engineer's "skull", creating the appearance we see in 'Alien'. It's really hard to dispute that the Engineers in 'Prometheus' looked different from what was in 'Alien', after all.
Alternately, perhaps they're different creatures entirely - 'Prometheus' hints at the Engineers' creators, maybe the Engineers modeled their tech on what was seen in 'Alien' in homage of their creators. That would explain why the suits, tech, and even the Juggernaut itself in 'Prometheus' looked stylistically somewhat-different from what was in 'Alien'.

Dude you can't prove that they connected. Apparently I can't prove that they aren't either.

You can speculate how Charles Bishop Weyland is what ever to Peter but since it says nothing about him on the website and Peter Weyland is the one that created his company then both sides can argue until the sun comes up.

Maybe Fox or Ridley will give the official word on the internet or on Blu-ray.

However is it true you count the EU as canon? 

Wouldn't you rather just forget that piece of crap AVP2 and don't you hope that's it's not considered canon?

I'd rather accept AVP1 as canon instead of that piece of crap AVP2 and it's Predalien.

Even the makers of Predators disown AVP1 and 2 and say it's not canon to their film. They don't count Predator 2 either but that's a good thing.   

Yes I count the EU as canon, and so does FOX - there's numerous quotes from FOX and their licensees saying as much, dating back for about 20 years now.

And the funny thing about Robert Rodriguez not considering AvP to be canon is that FOX retroactively did it for him - the blu-ray includes EU stuff (which is from AvP), and the packaging for the 'Predators' merchandise, which FOX designed in-house, explicitly references AvP and EU stuff. It's pretty hilarious.

Shit, the recent FOX press release for the upcoming Colonial Marines videogame outright calls the game "canon". Like they specifically use that word in the press release.

[Riddick9]

Aside from having the titular Alien and Predator creatures? They've also got "Weyland" and "Yutani", and the special features on the AvP Requiem blu-ray have an entire "Weyland Yutani archive" written from the perspective of someone living "in-universe" and it references the events of the Alien, Predator, and AvP films. I mean shit, the AvP movies are more concretely connected to the Alien series than 'Prometheus' is.
Not to mention the directors of both AvP movies outright said their movies are meant to be connected to the Alien and Predator films.

I will say I like Xeno's Signature and I agree with that to an extent.

We all have our own personal canons in our heads of what we want and what we hate.

Bingo.

Except for the inclusion of Michael Bishop in Alien 3.

That's not a plot-hole, though. Michael Bishop and Charles Weyland are different people.

So much for the horned alien skulls.

In response to the "That's not a jockey skull and the Preds don't take helmets" argument, why wouldn't they take helmets? They obviously take more than just skulls, what with the weapons they've taken off of enemies, like the pistol from Predator 2. Why wouldn't they take masks and helmets as well? It's no different than American soldiers taking pit-helmets from nazis in WWII.

Name one Predator film that they took a Helmet? Now how many times have they taken a skull? How many Skulls are in that trophy room vs. Helmets?

Why would the Predator not take the skull of a Space Jockey but instead take it's Helmet? They always take Skulls in every film I've seen and every comic I've read.

Fact is the directors of the film said in the commentary that it's a Space Jockey Skull.

Now that Ridley has designed the Space Jockey's the way he wanted or envisioned then it's not accurate anymore and has been retconned.

Then again, the AVP films and the Alien films are not officially connected.

Actually officially they are connected.

As for the head being different, apparently we can accept Ridley Scott's "authorial intent" that the creatures in 'Prometheus' are the same as the one in 'Alien', but the moment we try to accept the Brothers Strause's "authorial intent" that the skull is a Space Jockey, there's a problem? Buh-wha?

There's plenty of ways to reconcile it, anyway. Maybe the head in AvPR is older, and the mask is biomechanical and fuses with the Engineer's "skull", creating the appearance we see in 'Alien'. It's really hard to dispute that the Engineers in 'Prometheus' looked different from what was in 'Alien', after all.
Alternately, perhaps they're different creatures entirely - 'Prometheus' hints at the Engineers' creators, maybe the Engineers modeled their tech on what was seen in 'Alien' in homage of their creators. That would explain why the suits, tech, and even the Juggernaut itself in 'Prometheus' looked stylistically somewhat-different from what was in 'Alien'.

Dude you can't prove that they connected. Apparently I can't prove that they aren't either.

You can speculate how Charles Bishop Weyland is what ever to Peter but since it says nothing about him on the website and Peter Weyland is the one that created his company then both sides can argue until the sun comes up.

Maybe Fox or Ridley will give the official word on the internet or on Blu-ray.

However is it true you count the EU as canon? 

Wouldn't you rather just forget that piece of crap AVP2 and don't you hope that's it's not considered canon?

I'd rather accept AVP1 as canon instead of that piece of crap AVP2 and it's Predalien.

Even the makers of Predators disown AVP1 and 2 and say it's not canon to their film. They don't count Predator 2 either but that's a good thing.   

Yes I count the EU as canon, and so does FOX - there's numerous quotes from FOX and their licensees saying as much, dating back for about 20 years now.

And the funny thing about Robert Rodriguez not considering AvP to be canon is that FOX retroactively did it for him - the blu-ray includes EU stuff (which is from AvP), and the packaging for the 'Predators' merchandise, which FOX designed in-house, explicitly references AvP and EU stuff. It's pretty hilarious.

No offense but I can't take you seriously anymore when it comes to canon.

The EU is not canon.

I could write an essay about how many things in the EU that go against the films.

The Space Jockey mind controlling, design, the Alien's home Planet. Newt and Hicks being in them and being renamed Wilks and Billie.  I literally own almost everything Alien EU related and I've read some crap that doesn't even make sense. You really think that's all canon?

The fact that The ship doesn't destroy on LV-426 in some of the comics like it was.  The fact that they find Xenomorphs everywhere in Space.

[Sinister Serenity]

I see an epic forum debate heading this way. 

[Xenomrph]

The EU is not canon.

You're welcome to that opinion.

There is no Alien homeplanet in the EU, that got addressed in the book 'Aliens: Genocide' nearly 20 years ago.

I could write an essay about how many things in the EU that go against the films.

Yeah, and people can (and have) write essays about how many things in the movies, including 'Prometheus', go against each other.
Not to mention that many of those "contradictions" often end up not actually being contradictions, or are just opinions, or have since been fixed (such as the Wilks/Billie thing). It's a funny double-standard - when a movie (or something someone chooses to accept as "canon") changes something, it's a "retcon" or something that can invariably be explained away somehow, but the moment something someone doesn't like makes a change somewhere, it's an unforgivable "contradiction" and therefore "can't" be canon or something.

[Riddick9]

Yeah but I'm not entering the arena arguing over the EU being canon because it's not even worth it.

To much from the EU that conflicts with the Films. Hell some of the EU stuff conflicts with the EU stuff. 

It's not canon and I don't care if Fox said that at one point and time because the Writers and film makers screwed it all up.

The EU is not canon.

You're welcome to that opinion.

There is no Alien homeplanet in the EU, that got addressed in the book 'Aliens: Genocide' nearly 20 years ago.

I could write an essay about how many things in the EU that go against the films.

Yeah, and people can (and have) write essays about how many things in the movies, including 'Prometheus', go against each other.
Not to mention that many of those "contradictions" often end up not actually being contradictions, or are just opinions, or have since been fixed (such as the Wilks/Billie thing).

I'm sorry but we're going to have to just disagree on this friend.

I own almost every single EU comic their is and I've read almost all of them. Some of the stuff in there not only conflicts with the films but conflicts with the other EU stuff to the point it doesn't even make logically sense anymore.

Space Jockey's mind controlling, red Aliens and etc.....some of it is just to terrible to name. 

I'll accept that peice of crap AVP2 before I accept some of the EU stuff bro.

granted some of it is awesome but man some of it is awful.