Prometheus Fan Reviews

Started by Darkness, May 30, 2012, 05:46:52 AM

In short, what did you think of the film?

Loved it! (5/5)
143 (32.4%)
Good, but not great (4/5)
148 (33.6%)
It was okay, nothing good (3/5)
68 (15.4%)
Didn't care for it (2/5)
30 (6.8%)
It sucked (1/5)
27 (6.1%)
Hated it! (0/5)
25 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 438

Author
Prometheus Fan Reviews (Read 316,849 times)

BonesawT101

BonesawT101

#1650
Why does every thread about Prometheus end up being a nagging session about fifield and milburn ??? Why dont we try and actually review the film. Or pick apart some of the interesting ideas it presents?

I enjoyed Prometheus. I still enjoy it. I see its flaws of course but I love the ideas it tries to reach for and present. The film struggles with handling its lofty and ambitious plot at times but it largely manages to succeed in my opinion.

The script and dialogue lets the film down at times. The actors (all of them with the exception of Fassbender and at times Vickers) are poor in their conviction and delivery of their lines. Again this is just my opinion. I thought even Elba was poor. Most see him as a talented and reputable thesp but here, in this role he does not convince or deliver his lines with any conviction.
Fassbender however was fantastic. Such an intricate performance. He completely becomes David in the film. He delivers a very cunning and devious yet thought provoking performance as the films main antagonist in a way.

The visuals and the special effects are absolutely breathtaking. Make no mistake about it this is a beautiful film to look at. The design element is executed second to none (except, perhaps the original 1979 classic Alien) the sets create real working environments and the creature effects are among some of the most convincing effects seen in a long while.

Overall this is a solid entry to the science fiction genre. One of the best to grace our screens in the past decade. The acting and the script lets the film down at times but the stylish directing, special effects and Michael Fassbenders brilliant performance help drive the film to be a success.

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#1651
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Mar 16, 2017, 07:25:37 AMWhy does every thread about Prometheus end up being a nagging session about fifield and milburn ??? Why dont we try and actually review the film. Or pick apart some of the interesting ideas it presents?

Because they're perhaps the most obvious example of how the film completely undermines any pretence of intelligence it might have had with a dumb script. And that's my biggest problem with it.

I get that the film was trying to explore interesting themes. I just find it hard to care about them when the script is full of so many stupid characters and moments. It's just so hypocritical.

bb-15

bb-15

#1652
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Mar 16, 2017, 07:25:37 AM
Why does every thread about Prometheus end up being a nagging session about fifield and milburn ??? Why dont we try and actually review the film. Or pick apart some of the interesting ideas it presents?

I would enjoy doing that. But that's my personal taste.
There is no good or bad personal taste imo.
- Back to interesting ideas, here is a link to a video essay (from a YouTube channel, Renegade Cut) about "Prometheus" which goes into the philosophical concepts (in terms of the view of gods/God) that the film presents.



The video's topics include; a single source of multiple ancient polytheistic religions (the Engineers), cheating death (Weyland), and the belief in an afterlife (Shaw).
Added to that; if the Engineers are at the level of gods, are they dangerous? Could the Engineer/gods have always have had an evil intent against humanity? Or were the Engineers/gods at first nurturing but turned against humans later?
- These Questions are interesting to me and David and Shaw make several comments about that in the film.
However again that's my personal taste.
And for some viewers with different personal taste (based on years of debate on IMDb) those people could care less about these philosophical questions brought up in the film.
And it is certainly their privilege to have those opinions.

Quote from: BonesawT101 on Mar 16, 2017, 07:25:37 AMI enjoyed Prometheus. I still enjoy it. I see its flaws of course...

No movie is perfect in terms of logic or character motivation. I have a list of flaws for "Prometheus" (as I would for "2001") but they are more at the level of nitpicks.

Quote from: BonesawT101 on Mar 16, 2017, 07:25:37 AM...but I love the ideas it tries to reach for and present. The film struggles with handling its lofty and ambitious plot at times but it largely manages to succeed in my opinion.

Agreed but that's again our personal taste which doesn't get to the core of the complaints from the harsh critics of the movie on IMDb.

- You focus on the lack of conviction with the acting and delivery of lines by several characters. Fine. Not a big issue for me but I understand that the acting in the movie wasn't always great.
- You liked Fassbender as David. Me too. Best performance in the film imo.

Quote from: BonesawT101 on Mar 16, 2017, 07:25:37 AMThe visuals and the special effects are absolutely breathtaking...

Even many harsh critics of the movie on IMDb would admit that the visuals, sets in "Prometheus" are top notch.
The look of the movie is not the issue in my past debates at least.

Quote from: BonesawT101 on Mar 16, 2017, 07:25:37 AMOverall this is a solid entry to the science fiction genre.

And that gets down to it;
* What should a science fiction movie be, especially in the Alien franchise?
- For harsh critics on IMDb that I've debated with, here are a couple of their unforgivable problems with "Prometheus".
Again, people have every right to believe this and I am not trying to put anyone down.

* 1st IMDb critic problem; "Prometheus" is not a horror movie.
"Alien" has a single focus, to be a horror movie pretty much the entire film in a space ship.
The music, dark lighting, space ship models and the acting all are directed to build tension.
There are haunted house tropes of a monster hunt, the splitting of the group and jump scares.
- It's a great SF horror movie.

- "Prometheus" is not a horror film or a monster hunt film.
Its style begins like 2001, then it has an adventure like "Jurassic Park" and it contains a major mystery about Weyland (like something from a Sherlock Holmes story) and then it adds little bits of horror from "Alien" towards the end.

- That lack of single focus on horror with "Prometheus" is unforgivable for some.

* 2nd IMDb critic problem; horror movies have horror film tropes. One is the requirement that there be, in the words of The Eighth Passenger, "idiot", uneducated characters who do dumb things. 
Added to that a quote from The Eighth Passenger which sums up this harsh critic argument.

QuoteMuch easier to believe that hot-headed space prospectors and space truckers would do dumb shit...

- This brings up a difference in perception about "Alien". I look at the Nostromo crew and all of them (with the possible exception of Brett) are tech savy, and trained. Dallas knows about fossils. Parker was the first who said that infected Kane should be put into stasis. Ripley is certainly not uneducated as she has memorized protocols.
The character who does the dumbest things in "Alien" is Ash. But after a while I think he decided to worship the xenomorph and wanted it to kill the crew and therefore fail in the secret mission to get it back to earth.

- This is not only a disagreement about personal taste but it also has to do with perception. With my many debates on IMDb I see no solution to this.
Some want to see the Nostromo filled with "idiot" space truckers.
I see almost all the Nostromo crew as tech savy, and trained.
This debate will never be settled and it's a key part of the criticism of "Prometheus".

- The IMDB harsh critic argument is; If a character in an Alien franchise movie does something dumb then this person must be an uneducated "idiot". Because that fits the horror trope.
- Scientists are educated and therefore in a horror movie a scientist can never make dumb mistakes.
Therefore that part of "Prometheus" with the two lost scientists must be bad.
So the argument goes which I can never agree with.

As I wrote before and with all due respect, the movie which emphasized the "idiot" space crew idea a lot was Michael Bay's "Armageddon"?
- No disrespect to those who liked "Armageddon". It won the Hugo award for best science fiction movie after all.
But in terms of science, plausibility and logic, the oil driller crew in space, from my POV was silly.

* To sum up my view; "Alien" is not silly. The Nostromo crew are not a bunch of "idiot" space truckers.
And from my view I'm fine that "Prometheus" having scientists make mistakes. Because I accept it not being a horror film with typical horror character cliches.
And for that reason I find the parts of the Spaihts script that I brought up (about prospectors) to be terrible as I've already explained. 

- So, it is probably best for me to state that I don't think these arguments about "Prometheus" will ever be settled.
It's best that I agree to disagree.

Imo at least. ;-)

SM

SM

#1653
QuoteWhy does every thread about Prometheus end up being a nagging session about fifield and milburn

It doesn't.


Hemi

Hemi

#1654
"Boohoo, I love this movie please don't highlight it's obvious flaws!"

I Love Alien 3, get used to it... ;D


(lighthearted joke ofc, 😁)

bb-15

bb-15

#1655
In reviewing "Prometheus" one question which has come up a few times on this site is why did the Engineers change? They created humanity and then the Engineers wanted to destroy it.
- Over the years I have given up on the idea that the Engineers were once benevolent.
Whatever their reasons for their past actions, they seem to not have ever been angelic, fitting the concept of a loving god.

A few viewers have tried to persuade me to this view of the Engineers always being hostile.
What clinched it was first the information from Ridley Scott which pointed to David as having a better grasp of the overall situation compared with any other character.

QuoteRidley Scott; (from the commentary beginning about 1:52 to 2:03 on the Blu-ray)
This is where David ... says "Elizabeth, Are you there?"...
You could give him "Paradise Lost" to read... and he could recite it to you.
So, when he was watching the giants do this thing, that's how he was learning and putting 2 and 2 together...
It's the grasp (of) the overall scheme of things, that is what he is like.

* What does David believe about the Engineers?
1. They had no grand purpose that we can understand in creating humanity.
(There is evidence of ritual which will be discussed below but no indication of the loving god motive.)

QuoteHolloway: What we hoped to achieve was to meet our makers. To get answers. Why they even made us in the first place.
David: Why do you think your people made me?
Holloway: We made you because we could.
David: Can you imagine how disappointing it would be for you to hear the same thing from your creator?

2. The Engineers create and then they destroy. That is the pattern of their culture.

QuoteShaw: So they were traveling somewhere?
David: I've managed to work out the broad strips, it's fairly evident they were in the process of leaving, before things went to pot.
Shaw: Leaving to go where?
David: Earth.
Shaw: Why?
David: Sometimes to create, one must first destroy.

3. Why the Engineers change from creation to destruction is not relevant or understandable to human western ethics.
That is just what the Engineers do.

QuoteShaw: They created us. Then they tried to kill us. They changed their minds. I deserve to know why.
David: The answer is irrelevant. Does it matter why they changed their minds?

* The film makers have given their basic views about the Engineers which is fairly consistent with David's dialogue.
1. The Engineers create and they destroy.

QuoteRidley Scott; (from the Blu-ray commentary during the credits)
Because we've gone off in a different direction which is about creation. Right. And this is about creation and then destruction. If you realize that you've done something,... whatever you've created is wrong, you want to kind of wipe it out and start again and wipe the slate clean...
So that line of Fassbender when she says "where are they going?" He said, "earth." "Why?"...
But he said, "...sometimes to create, you first must destroy."...

2. From our perspective the Engineers would be lethal and we would not want to meet them.

QuoteRidley Scott; (continuing the Blu-ray commentary during the credits)
I think even (Stephen) Hawking at this juncture has admitted that he thinks that there may be other life forms out there. And he said hopefully they won't visit. They won't be nice. 
Well if they're that smart, they're not going to be particularly nice.

3. The Engineers as experimenters of life on planets;

QuoteLindelof; (writer's commentary on the Blu-ray from about 1:38)
And David just basically gives his own theory which is, well, in order to create, we must first destroy. And so whether they were experimenting, the petri-dish theory, or gonna... evolve us in someway. Well, that's a question best left to your own interpretation...

5. To the Engineers, humans are at the level of chimps.

QuoteLindelof; (writer's commentary on the Blu-ray from about 1:40)
The Engineer...
got woken up by, essentially, chimpanzees.
And they woke you up and they were just sort of chattering at you when you woke up, what would really happen? Would you try to communicate with the chimpanzees and then kill them?
Or would you just kind of go to town?
And so the idea that the engineers have already sort of decided that they've given up on humanity for all fundamental purposes, they wouldn't have anything to say.

6. The film making team began speculating about the Engineers and their creations (the Deacon and the xenomorph).
Overall the view of this culture is dangerous, hostile. The creators and destroyers of worlds (paraphrased from Hindu mythology/religion).

QuoteSteven Messing, (Visual Effects Art Director for Prometheus, in the 3D Blu-Ray set extras disk / Enhancement Pods / Xenomorphology: The Deacon);
The xenomorph in my mind was a descendant of the Ultramorph (the Deacon). It was the pure form of this kind of almost virus that these Engineers had created.

They're a lot about sacrifice, so in my mind, there was an Engineer that sacrificed himself with this virus and it created this horrific creature, this being that was gonna eradicate planets. It was like a parasite that would destroy the planet and then make it start over and rebirth it.

And they kinda worshiped it, and that's where you see this relief sculpture where it's almost a religious sculpture.

Imo at least. BB ;-)

SGS756

SGS756

#1656
In the warm and pleasant summer of 2012, I left Ridley Scott's Prometheus with a sense of majestic confusion. The film had cast a spell of bewilderment that has been hard to untangle in the intervening years. This was in stark contrast to my fellow patrons whose vivid and graphic vocal utterances were as acidic as the Xenomorph's blood from the acclaimed horror franchise. To say that Prometheus is a film that causes passions to run high (on both sides of the debate) is putting it lightly. On subsequent home viewings, the film has unravelled into a peculiar concoction that oozes with astonishing cinematic craftsmanship while simultaneously being confounding in its writing. Watching the film is akin to witnessing the last dying gasps of a conceptually ludicrous vaudeville production that is delivered with a considerable amount of gusto.

Conceived as a picture that retains the spirit as well as the DNA of 1979's Alien: Prometheus chronicles a scientific expedition to the far-reaching moon of LV-223 for the purpose of finding the Engineers. They are beings who are considered the creators of humankind. In the writers' audio commentary, co-writer Damon Lindelof states "For me, Prometheus was all about making an Alien-Blade Runner mash-up, using the best themes from both movies and dropping them all into the same world." With this in mind, one could read the film as a reversal of the hefty metaphysical strife of Blade Runner. Crucially, Lindelof articulates that Prometheus is about a human who goes to ask his creator for more life whereas, in Blade Runner, it was the replicant Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) who desired the same goal from his maker. (Edon Tyrell)

While this is a conceptually sound idea, the execution is infuriating in its sheer amateurishness. At its worst, Prometheus indulges in a fetishism for vagueness, a trait that emphatically espouses clarity as a troublesome menace to good writing, and it has plagued many films from The Force Awakens to Star Trek Into Darkness. Culturally, it is truly poisoning the movies; turning them from engaging pieces of art to novelty items that are supposedly orgasmic in their surprises. Instead, they are about as clever as a ten-year-old shouting boo.

Peter Weyland (Guy Pierce) is the man in Prometheus who seeks his creator's wisdom to eternal life. However, his role in the film is regulated to a cameo as Lindelof considers his constant presence as detrimental to his vision of inane mysteries. There were scenes that had a young Weyland talking to his android creation David. (Michael Fassbender) However, they were exercised in favour of pointless intrigue. Worse yet, Weyland's appeal for eternal life when meeting the lone engineer on the moon is on the cutting room floor. There is depth in a character expressing his desire, however, Lindelof didn't get the memo. Blade Runner's power came from Roy Batty's violent and rhapsodic presence as well as a desire that blurred the line between human and android. Moreover, Batty truly learnt the value of mortality in his mournfully reflective final moments. By comparison, Weyland barely registers as a human being.

There are many instances of Prometheus decimating its depth in favour of a smooth two-hour running time. One of the picture's sub-themes is how children view their elders. Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace) still clings to her father's impactful words about choosing to believe as the lynchpin for her faith. David perceives Weyland as an obstacle to what he understands as freedom, slyly surmised when he says, "Doesn't everyone want their parents dead."

However, Meredith Vickers' (Charlize Theron) relationship with her father, which is chiefly illustrated in a scene with Weyland in the third act feels superficial and sketchily developed. Theron's best moment of acting is when she expresses her admiration for Weyland in the past along with her current source of disdain for the old man. The manner of her delivery and body language (in the moment she is kneeling down at her father's side and placing her face on his hand) puts one in mind of the process of growing up; as it showcases a child's shifting relationship to their parents; going from sweet and idealistic admiration to bitter resentment over minor differences. Sadly, the moment is not present in the finished film, and consequently, the scene in its current incarnation feels like a race towards an eyebrow-raising revelation.

One does get the distinct impression that the third act of Prometheus collapses under the weight of its hide and seek antics. The most emblematic aspect of this quality comes from the portrait of the Engineers whose presence were scaled back as the production of the film wore on. In particular, a scene when an Engineer converses with David was cut because Lindloff found "it robbed him of any coolness or mystery." The opening sequence originally had a number of the humanoid aliens and a striking moment in the initially shot final confrontation had the lone Engineer observe a flickering colour projection of a young girl playing the violin. Contrary to the co-writers' sentiment, the incomplete portrayal serves only to make the apparent divine beings seem like generic slasher movie fare as opposed to the fascinating creatures who were ascetically inspired by the works of Michelangelo.

In other regards, Prometheus is incredibly postmodern in its approach. The underhanded machinations of the corporate sleazes from the franchise are given overt life by Vickers. The basketball scene from Alien Resurrection is amusingly homaged here; proving that whether one is a Xenomorph/human hybrid or android that your physical prowess is proven by scoring a stupefyingly hard basket.

More noteworthy is the film retaining a quality that has permeated the series and imbuing it with a striking immediacy. The Alien films have always had a subtle judgement of humanity. In the first, our survival instincts are found wanting compared with the seemingly perfect Xenomorph whose biology and design makes it the perfect embodiment of Darwin's survival of the fittest. In Aliens, Ripley's (Sigourney Weaver) maternal instincts are tragically found wanting when she discovers her daughter died while she was in cryosleep for 57 years. They are eventually tested as she must face the nightmarish Alien Queen, for life of a little girl she has bonded with through the course of the movie. In Alien 3, the judgement is religious in nature as the lone Xenomorph is viewed as the physical manifestation of God's vengeance for all the prisoners on Fury 161. They believe that the creature is punishing them for their sins and their salvation might come from destroying it.

In Prometheus, David proves to be a constant source of judgement as his various responses towards the crew carry an underlying sense of delight at the fact that he is not a human being. A particularly amusing moment is when he says "Hopefully not too close" when responding to Charlie Holloway (Logan Marshall-Green) about simulated humanity.

In the context of the many androids that have pervaded cinema; David is less Pinocchio then a curious entity with negative intentions. Director Ridley Scott expectedly conveys this in David's first appearance. The android walks into a darkened room; the pitch blackness of the cryo room represents his insidious impulses and the brightly illuminated background evoke his flourishing inquisitive nature. His morality is surmised in the scene when he is watching Lawrence of Arabia, and the titular character says "The trick William Potter is not minding that it hurts." David repeats the line like a mantra. Fassbender's performance is captivating because it submerges any aspect of the android in favour of a seemingly aloof disposition that hides a remarkably dangerous edge.

Even with its woefully executed premise, Prometheus strangely captures the spirit of Alien in a unique manner. In my revisit of the original picture, I was struck by how it felt like a terrifying evocation of Lovecraftian cosmic horror combined with a potently nasty sexual subtext. The primary strength derives from a sheer insignificance and helplessness of the human characters in the face of a motiveless creature of instinct. One notable scene melds both facets to disturbing effect as Lambert (Veronica Cartwright) is reduced to paralytic fear when she gets a glimpse of the creature. Her unseen and audible death sounds like rape is occurring rather than a swift dispatching.

Prometheus' sumptuous visuals and direction make humanity seem like an inconsequential species; the potent fear comes from the sheer unknown of meeting our makers. To this end, the picture achieves a certain amount of awe and terrifying wonder in its speculative musings. Humanity has never looked less worthy of consideration in any other Alien picture. The title ship looks like an insect while its travel through the galaxy as overarching clouds and looming landscapes diminishes its scientific and technological endeavour.

Scott's cinematic artistry particularly shines in the opening sequence due to a series of aerial shots capturing earthly landscapes. The series of shots feel like a reinvention of the famed "phantom-ride" shot (in early cinema, director G.A. Smith, would put a camera on the front of fasting moving trains which would provide a ghostly effect) and gives the audience the distinctive feeling that Earth is being viewed as a single celled organism on a petri dish.

Despite this, the psychosexual subtext of Prometheus is lacking. Elizabeth Shaw cannot give birth and a plot point results in her removing an alien foetus from her belly. The sequence is undeniably great in its feverish intensity because of its uses of close-ups and graphic detail. Nevertheless, the permeating idea seems to be uninteresting and has the same amount import as someone shrugging their shoulders and saying in a detached manner, life is tough. Whereas, in Alien the subtext is tapping into instances of grotesque interspecies violations and a genuine horror of gender swapping birth.

The lingering existential question of Prometheus is what does the seemingly divine dimension add to the franchise? The answer may come in Alien Convent or the various other planned instalments, and that potential vagueness might be most maddening of all.

bb-15

bb-15

#1657
Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PM
In the writers' audio commentary, co-writer Damon Lindelof states "For me, Prometheus was all about making an Alien-Blade Runner mash-up, using the best themes from both movies and dropping them all into the same world." With this in mind, one could read the film as a reversal of the hefty metaphysical strife of Blade Runner. Crucially, Lindelof articulates that Prometheus is about a human who goes to ask his creator for more life whereas, in Blade Runner, it was the replicant Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) who desired the same goal from his maker. (Edon Tyrell)

While this is a conceptually sound idea, the execution is infuriating in its sheer amateurishness.

Well thought out comments.
I'd add that another movie which was said to influence "Prometheus" was Kubrick's "2001". 

QuoteRidley Scott himself once teased Prometheus as "2001 on steroids."
http://www.ign.com/wikis/prometheus/2001

So, the list of influences include; "2001", "Blade Runner" and "Alien".
However, I don't think that anyone (with rare exception) is claiming that "Prometheus" is better than those 3 movies.
And that leads to a divide between many viewers.
- Some are appalled that "Prometheus" references these classic movies.
- Others appreciate that "Prometheus" is an homage to those classic films.

It's a personal taste thing of course.
And the lens of personal taste, without judgement, will be a theme throughout my comment.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PM
At its worst, Prometheus indulges in a fetishism for vagueness, a trait that emphatically espouses clarity as a troublesome menace to good writing,

This is an expectation from Ridley about his audience for some of his science fiction; mainly "Blade Runner" and "Prometheus".
Ridley only wants to reveal so much.
That is a curse or a blessing depending on the viewer.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMCulturally, it is truly poisoning the movies; turning them from engaging pieces of art to novelty items that are supposedly orgasmic in their surprises. Instead, they are about as clever as a ten-year-old shouting boo.

Speaking of 10 year olds, there is a debate about what is a good big budget adventure / science fiction film.
- A recent critical darling is "Mad Max Fury Road" which has a simple plot with simple dialogue with cool special effects and a cliched story.
Brilliant some will say and that is partly because a parent may add that their 10 year old can understand it.
- "Prometheus" caters to a different kind of viewer.
They know a 10 year old will not be able easily grasp its meaning.
Whether this is good or bad, again of course is in the eye of the beholder. 

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMPeter Weyland (Guy Pierce) is the man in Prometheus who seeks his creator's wisdom to eternal life. However, his role in the film is regulated to a cameo as Lindelof considers his constant presence as detrimental to his vision of inane mysteries.

A person can think a certain kind of mystery is inane. It's anyone's privilege to have that opinion.
- But the concept of the antogonist, who appears dead, has a long history in mystery fiction, beginning with Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None".
The trope has recently been used in the Robert Downey Jr. "Sherlock Holmes" film and several times in the Cumberbatch "Sherlock" TV series.
- So an alternative view is to appreciate this story idea.   

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMBlade Runner's power came from Roy Batty's violent and rhapsodic presence as well as a desire that blurred the line between human and android. Moreover, Batty truly learnt the value of mortality in his mournfully reflective final moments. By comparison, Weyland barely registers as a human being...

David perceives Weyland as an obstacle to what he understands as freedom, slyly surmised when he says, "Doesn't everyone want their parents dead."

Imo this is a valid point about the "father / son" relationships in "Blade Runner" and "Prometheus".
- Roy's rebellion against his "father" is direct and brutal. And It represents a fight against a greater cause of oppression where human clones are sold as slaves.
- David's resistance to Weyland is more passive aggressive and personal.
As he smiles David leads the old man into a situation which will likely lead to death.
David wishes his parent to be dead but he can't do the killing.
* "Blade Runner" is the superior version imo.
But that gets back to the above point. Is an influence terrible or is the homage appreciated?

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMHowever, Meredith Vickers' (Charlize Theron) relationship with her father, which is chiefly illustrated in a scene with Weyland in the third act feels superficial and sketchily developed. Theron's best moment of acting is when she expresses her admiration for Weyland in the past along with her current source of disdain for the old man. The manner of her delivery and body language (in the moment she is kneeling down at her father's side and placing her face on his hand) puts one in mind of the process of growing up; as it showcases a child's shifting relationship to their parents; going from sweet and idealistic admiration to bitter resentment over minor differences. Sadly, the moment is not present in the finished film, and consequently, the scene in its current incarnation feels like a race towards an eyebrow-raising revelation.

How much information does the audience need?
Ridley likes a shorthand style which can irritate or be appreciated by the viewer.
For some Vickers is a missed opportunity.
For me? I thought the themes with her character and the dad issues were developed enough in the theatrical cut.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMOne does get the distinct impression that the third act of Prometheus collapses under the weight of its hide and seek antics. The most emblematic aspect of this quality comes from the portrait of the Engineers whose presence were scaled back as the production of the film wore on. In particular, a scene when an Engineer converses with David was cut because Lindloff found "it robbed him of any coolness or mystery." The opening sequence originally had a number of the humanoid aliens and a striking moment in the initially shot final confrontation had the lone Engineer observe a flickering colour projection of a young girl playing the violin. Contrary to the co-writers' sentiment, the incomplete portrayal serves only to make the apparent divine beings seem like generic slasher movie fare as opposed to the fascinating creatures who were ascetically inspired by the works of Michelangelo.

Interesting. Many fans of slasher moves complain that "Prometheus" greatly missed the mark in that area.
This has been one of the most consistent criticisms of the movie on the Internet.
- I can understand the desire to have the deleted scenes about the Engineers put into a director's cut.
Still, I don't see the absence of that turning "Prometheus" into a generic slasher film.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMIn other regards, Prometheus is incredibly postmodern in its approach. The underhanded machinations of the corporate sleazes from the franchise are given overt life by Vickers. The basketball scene from Alien Resurrection is amusingly homaged here; proving that whether one is a Xenomorph/human hybrid or android that your physical prowess is proven by scoring a stupefyingly hard basket.

Agreed.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMMore noteworthy is the film retaining a quality that has permeated the series and imbuing it with a striking immediacy. The Alien films have always had a subtle judgement of humanity...

Interesting analysis.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMIn Prometheus, David proves to be a constant source of judgement as his various responses towards the crew carry an underlying sense of delight at the fact that he is not a human being. A particularly amusing moment is when he says "Hopefully not too close" when responding to Charlie Holloway (Logan Marshall-Green) about simulated humanity.

Yes. This goes back to my comment about David and Weyland.
David has an agenda. It is just very passive but still has a deadly edge to it.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMIn the context of the many androids that have pervaded cinema; David is less Pinocchio then a curious entity with negative intentions.

Yes. David is a fascinating character imo.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMPrometheus' sumptuous visuals and direction make humanity seem like an inconsequential species; the potent fear comes from the sheer unknown of meeting our makers. To this end, the picture achieves a certain amount of awe and terrifying wonder in its speculative musings. Humanity has never looked less worthy of consideration in any other Alien picture. The title ship looks like an insect while its travel through the galaxy as overarching clouds and looming landscapes diminishes its scientific and technological endeavour.

That view works for me.
This insignificance of earth's humanity, in the greater scheme, is echoed in some of David's comments.
It seems that he has the best grasp of what the Engineers are about and it seems humans are not very important in the grand design of the galaxy.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMDespite this, the psychosexual subtext of Prometheus is lacking. Elizabeth Shaw cannot give birth and a plot point results in her removing an alien foetus from her belly. The sequence is undeniably great in its feverish intensity because of its uses of close-ups and graphic detail. Nevertheless, the permeating idea seems to be uninteresting and has the same amount import as someone shrugging their shoulders and saying in a detached manner, life is tough. Whereas, in Alien the subtext is tapping into instances of grotesque interspecies violations and a genuine horror of gender swapping birth.

In terms of the rape theme, this is central to "Alien".
But that is not at the core of "Prometheus" imo.
- Instead the bigger idea has to do with space aliens as "gods" where they don't seem to care about the longterm survival of humans.
This slides into the angry god or evil god themes.   
- The fear in "Prometheus" then is not that a monster will rape you by shoving something down your throat.
Instead the fear is more of an overall dread, that these super aliens / gods could squash earth's humans like a bug (covering earth with a black goo mist).
And that humanity on earth only escaped extinction by luck.

Quote from: SGS756 on May 15, 2017, 09:26:05 PMThe lingering existential question of Prometheus is what does the seemingly divine dimension add to the franchise? The answer may come in Alien Convent or the various other planned instalments...

What did "Prometheus" do?
James Cameron wanted to film a xenomorph invasion of earth movie. That was vetoed by Sigourney.
She also vetoed a film about visiting a xenomorph planet.
And Weaver got rid of Hicks and Newt.
- The result was that a later Alien movie had to star Sigouney with no other main character.
And the story had to be about people being stuck in a confined space (a prison or station) while a xenomorph(s) hunted them.

* Now, I know that some people love that limitation and repetition in Alien 3 & 4. And I enjoy those movie to a certain extent.
But for those who want more variety (like me), "Prometheus" opened the scope of an Alien franchise film to a galactic scale.
And it added more that could happen beyond a basic hunt.
"Prometheus" considers our place in this universe, who our creator is and whether it has hostile intentions or not.

** I want to repeat that I enjoyed your review. 

;)   

Hemi

Hemi

#1658
QuoteBut for those who want more variety (like me), "Prometheus" opened the scope of an Alien franchise film to a galactic scale.

No it did not, it actually made it smaller. Aliens gave you much more galactic scale with Frosts arcturian poontang joke then Prometheus ever did. Let's not forget the times you did not know what the Jockey was, that alone made the scale huge. Prometheus made the universe small because you get the feeling it's just humanity and the engineers, the end. And bursting the bubble of the jockey made it even worse.  :-\


bb-15

bb-15

#1659
Quote from: Hemi on May 19, 2017, 11:47:48 AM
QuoteBut for those who want more variety (like me), "Prometheus" opened the scope of an Alien franchise film to a galactic scale.

No it did not, it actually made it smaller. Aliens gave you much more galactic scale with Frosts arcturian poontang joke then Prometheus ever did. Let's not forget the times you did not know what the Jockey was, that alone made the scale huge. Prometheus made the universe small because you get the feeling it's just humanity and the engineers, the end. And bursting the bubble of the jockey made it even worse.  :-\

Hmmm... Sorry, I have to disagree which is alright.
After my comment, I'm most willing to move on.

* Not knowing the background about a dead space alien, the Space Jockey in "Alien", does not mean that a person knows much about the Space Jockey.
Since the knowledge of the Space Jockey just from "Alien" is almost all speculation, then the scale in terms of time and distance that the Space Jockeys were involved with was also pretty much unknown.
- The SJ was fossilized which could happen in a few thousand years. And the distance from earth was less than a hundred light years.
- With just "Alien", any argument that the scale of the Space Jockey was "huge" (in terms of distance / time) could be countered by an argument that the scale was relatively small (compared with other space travel science fiction films). 

* As a result of the lack of knowledge in the Alien franchise and the lack of vision of the sequel filmmakers after "Aliens", in later films the scale was small.
- Only Ridley Scott could open the scale of the franchise to huge distances and huge periods of time.
A3 and A4, are not about the Space Jockey.
A3 and A4 are about a xenomorph monster hunt in an enclosed space involving few thousand yards / meters of area.
The time frame of A3 and A4 are just a few hundred years. The distances in space, less than 100 light years.

* "Prometheus" is about the Space Jockey, also known as the Engineer.
Pro opens the scale of the franchise in terms of time showing an Engineer implanting organic material on a planet millions / billions of years in the past.
Pro shows the various solar systems in the galaxy that the Engineers were involved with (and maybe even beyond our galaxy). This involves distances of hundreds of thousands of light years.
* The scale of distance and time with the Engineers in "Prometheus" are vast. It is at the edge of what can be conceived in movie science fiction imo.

* Anyway, as I mentioned, I'm most willing to agree to disagree.

;)

Hemi

Hemi

#1660
Not knowing is still a bigger scale m8... It's kinda a fact, sorry.. Even though Alien 3 & 4 were confined to small spaces, it would still have the viewer fantasize about the jockey and were it came from, or what the alien actually is. Prometheus spoils all these things and shrinks the alien universe significantly. Before the alien could have come from any planet, or even be this ancient being. It could still be of course, but until that time... The universe is simply smaller..

bb-15

bb-15

#1661
Quote from: Hemi on May 19, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
Not knowing is still a bigger scale m8... It's kinda a fact, sorry.. Even though Alien 3 & 4 were confined to small spaces, it would still have the viewer fantasize about the jockey and were it came from, or what the alien actually is. Prometheus spoils all these things and shrinks the alien universe significantly. Before the alien could have come from any planet, or even be this ancient being. It could still be of course, but until that time... The universe is simply smaller..

I've enjoyed the exchange.
Sorry we can't agree but that's how it is sometimes.
I just saw Covenant so, I'll be chatting about that film (in its own section) now.

;)

Alionic

Alionic

#1662
Prometheus is a great movie. The new direction is took was much needed after the critical disasters of Alien Resurrection, AVP, and AVP:R.

Huntsman

Huntsman

#1663
Quote from: Alionic on Jun 02, 2017, 10:24:32 PM
Prometheus is a great movie. The new direction is took was much needed after the critical disasters of Alien Resurrection, AVP, and AVP:R.
It's a 4/5 movie in my opinion. I really dig the way it established the general ideas of the Alien world. Some parts of the film dragged, but for the most part I was engaged with what was happening.

Alionic

Alionic

#1664
Has anybody seen Prometheus in 4K HDR yet? Fox released it alongside Covenant on August 15th.

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