Prometheus Fan Reviews

[DoomRulz]

To answer his question about why 2001 is praised and Prometheus isn't, I'd say it's because 2001 wasn't hyped up as a prequel to massively popular and influential sci-fi film.

Also I guess 2001 truly broke new ground with visuals and effects, whereas Prometheus, pretty as it was, didn't. Glad you're enjoying the video anyway, it's worth sitting through.

Finished! I loved it. Thanks for sharing.

[szkoki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WIUKqPpOr8

[HuDaFuK]

That's literally the exact video I was talking about My fault for not posting it here!

[Ingwar]

3/5

[Corporal Hicks]

That's a nicely fleshed out review. 

[Ingwar]

That's a nicely fleshed out review. 

I like getting to the point in the quickest way possible . Besides, what else can we write about Prometheus? Probably everything has been already said/written.

[szkoki]

Rewatched it on the 1st of January.....umm meh.

[oduodu]

It's over an hour long, but if you can watch it all, this video is a really good review of the film's problems beyond the usual "dumb scientists" stuff. I agree with pretty much everything in it.

Best analysis of Prometheus I have ever seen and I a surprised at how gained respect for the movie after all his in depth research. What amazed me was the poor reception 2001 initially got .   I think Prometheus is Scott's take on 2001 .

Themes: Scott thinks the black monolith is a guider of evolution so too speak.

Oh and I always thought Lindelof was the writer and Spaihts was the ideas man. He claims the opposite. WTF??

[bb-15]

It's over an hour long, but if you can watch it all, this video is a really good review of the film's problems beyond the usual "dumb scientists" stuff. I agree with pretty much everything in it.

I watched this video review up to the 24 minute mark. Then I skipped ahead to get the video's conclusions after that and stopped at 38 minutes.
- I disagreed with every one of video's premises and conclusions up to that point.

1. The "fix" of the two scientists getting lost in the Spaihts script (they forgot the map) is not a fix.
A geologist forgetting a map of a newly discovered tunnel is a terrible idea and is not plausible. (Why not quickly realize the map was forgotten and walk back to get it?)
Ridley Scott improved this by making the geologist irritable and almost hysterical when seeing a dead giant alien. Even highly skilled professionals (like airline pilots) when agitated can be upset/distracted and get lost. That is a fact in our world.
- Ridley Scott and Lindelof fixed this problem in the Spaihts script.

2. The idea that the Spaihts draft script is without flaws is not true.
For instance Spaihts draft has the story take place on LV-426, the same moon as in "Alien".
* The Spaihts draft has giant Engineer structures on LV-426. They are the size of a small city and it is lit up with powerful lighting. From the Spaihts script.
http://www.joblo.com/scripts/Alien-Engineers-ORIGINAL-PROMETHEUS-SCRIPT.pdf

(*** page 33)
(From the central crater, four canals extend outward like points of the compass. Some connect to smaller craters.
One canal peters out, flush with the desert floor.
The Magellan lands at the end of this canal - half a kilometer from the central crater...)

WATTS: Twenty-four pyramids scattered around the moon's equator. Massive power supplies. Vents in the walls. Atmosphere changes. Breeder tanks...

(*** page 117)
EXT. CENTRAL CRATER - NIGHT
The massive central pyramid rises in the midst of the Engineer complex. With a BOOM, a bright beam of light shines forth from its peak, punching straight up through the clouds like a laser.
VARIOUS PYRAMIDS - AROUND LV-426
Other beams of light erupt from other pyramids. Scorching the sky with their brightness.
EXT. LV-426 ORBIT
The barren moon hangs in space, its father planet an angry red god in the background. Two dozen beams of light rise from the moon, visible even from space. A beacon. A signal.

- This is inconsistent with "Aliens" where LV-426 was terraformed and the people living on that moon are a terraforming colony.
- The process of terraforming requires an extensive survey of the moon using satellites that track thermal imagery, gas composition and so on.
- Secondly, the viewer knows from "Alien" that the Weyland/Yutani company wants to investigate any evidence of alien life. Therefore a terraforming survey would also include looking for evidence of alien structures. 
- In "Aliens" the terraforming colony would easily find the Engineer structures. This would've led to an investigation and discovery of the xenomorphs before Ripley arrived in the film.
- This part of the Spaihts script is inconsistent with "Aliens".
- Ridley Scott and Lindelof fixed this problem.

3. There is the issue of the cost of filming the Spaihts script;
- It had backstory scenes of underwater archaeology and an expedition to Mars. Things like this could not be in the movie because it would be too expensive to film.
The Spaihts script also had multiple special-effects which would have ballooned the production budget. The studio insisted that the cost of the movie needed to be cut down.
- Ridley Scott and Lindelof fixed this problem which led to the financial success of "Prometheus".
* Because of that financial success, we are getting more Alien franchise movies which to me is a good thing.

4. I disagree with the conclusion of the video that "Prometheus" is not adequate as a science fiction film because there is not enough discussion about life being brought to earth by advanced space aliens.
- The introduction of the movie visually shows life being introduced on a planet by an advanced space alien.
- The concept of life being introduced on earth by advanced space aliens is discussed in the presentation by Holloway and Shaw to the crew. The geologist and the biologist reject this because they are in favor of pure Darwinian evolution (completely unaffected by some intelligent space alien designer).
- Later in the film Weyland discusses the concept of life being introduced by the Engineers and he believes it. He wants to use one of those Engineers to find a cure for death.
- As already mentioned in the YouTube review, Shaw and Holloway discuss the implications of life being introduced by space aliens. And the captain, Janek, comments about it.
* There is enough discussion and visual representation of the introduction of life by advanced space aliens for "Prometheus" to qualify as a science-fiction movie.

5. The answer to the mystery? It's in "Prometheus". The viewer needs to pay attention to what David says in the film; about the Engineers and creators in general.
I compare the mystery of the Engineer's motive and what they do in "Prometheus" with the motive of Kurtz in "Apocalypse Now". What is said about Kurtz' motive; in one dialogue, he's insane and he's acting like god among the natives. In another throw away line Kurtz is following the law of the jungle.
But Kurtz never explained his motive. He talks about the genius of chopping kid's arms off and bombing cows but he never explains why he deserted and set up his kingdom in the jungle. And his followers also say nothing except for the reporter who exclaims that Kurtz is mad.
The mystery of why Kurtz did it is not solved in "Apocalypse Now"; yet I believe this is one of the best films ever made.   
- Again, I suggest viewers focus on David's statements about the motive of the Engineers. It is no more vague than what "Apocalypse Now" presents imo. 

6. I do not see "Prometheus" as a horror film especially if it is compared with "Alien".
Instead I see it as an adventure science fiction movie with horror elements like "Jurassic Park".

Imo at least, ;-)

edit; grammar and clarity (Engineers introducing life discussed by Shaw, Holloway & Janek came from the YouTube review).

[SiL]

Ridley Scott improved this by making the geologist irritable and almost hysterical when seeing a dead giant alien.

Doesn't explain not asking the Prometheus -- which could see them on the map -- which way to go, or the Prometheus crew not noticing for so long that they weren't back despite them making it clear they were heading back, etc.

[bb-15]

Ridley Scott improved this by making the geologist irritable and almost hysterical when seeing a dead giant alien.

Doesn't explain not asking the Prometheus -- which could see them on the map -- which way to go, or the Prometheus crew not noticing for so long that they weren't back despite them making it clear they were heading back, etc.

You have brought up a new topic which I wasn't addressing in my previous post.

* My original topic was why the Spaihts script version of the lost crew members is not an improvement over what was shown in the final movie. In fact imo it is inferior to the version used in the film.

* Now to your new topics;
- "Doesn't explain not asking the Prometheus -- which could see them on the map -- which way to go,"

To answer why the two scientists didn't contact the Prometheus;
First, there is very little time between when the two scientists leave and when the storm comes up. 
- At 37:51 in the movie the two scientists leave.
- At 41:13 Janek orders the team to return immediately.
This is a total of 3 minutes and 22 seconds.
The editing of the team in the Temple room is not compressed very much and this is close to real time.

Second; Janek's message would have been heard by everyone who had their communications gear on including Fifield / MIlburn.
But at that time, after about 3.5 minutes of leaving the Temple room door area, it is likely that Fifield was not yet lost.
Third, in those 3.5 minutes Fifield was still agitated after being in a rage and so probably wasn't ready to clearly check his map instrument yet.
- So, when Janek contacted the team, the reasons that Fifield didn't contact the ship back at the 3.5 minute mark after leaving the Temple room, was that he wasn't yet lost and he was dealing with his tantrum.     

* Next topic;
"or the Prometheus crew not noticing for so long that they weren't back despite them making it clear they were heading back, etc."

In the 3.5 minutes after Fifield and Milburn left the rest of the team, the Prometheus crew are shown looking at the weather on their monitors before Janek gave his order.
The bridge crew were busy and would not be looking at the tunnel hologram in those 3.5 minutes after the two scientists left.
- Even if the captain/pilot glanced at the hologram and noticed the 2 scientists who had walked away, again the two scientists were probably not lost yet.

* Next is the time for the team to leave the Temple room, get to their vehicles and reach the ship.
At 41:24 in the movie Vickers tells Shaw that the outer doors of the Prometheus will be closed in 15 minutes.
- Now the issue for the bridge crew is the safety of the ship and getting the team back. They are focused on that.

* So, here is what happened after this imo.
- At 42:00 in the film Shaw's part of the team has left the Temple room and is rushing back to their vehicles.
- In the time it took for Shaw's team to go from the Temple room to the vehicles, Fifield took a wrong turn, but in his agitated state he did not notice yet.
So, Shaw's group misses passing Fifield and Milburn.
- Shaw's team figured the two scientists had a 4 minute head start and had walked back to the ship.
- The bridge crew were checking the ship to prepare for the storm and were not looking at the tunnel hologram.

* When Shaw's group get to their vehicles, Holloway says;

Holloway: they've already taken off.

I'm sure he is referring to Fifield and Milburn and this was the belief of Shaw's group at that moment.
- It is now too late for Fifield and Milburn to get back to the ship due to the storm.
- Then the bridge crew tells Shaw's group;

Your're running out of time.

When Shaw's group gets to the Prometheus, the bridge crew is focused on saving Shaw (who went after the dropped Engineer head).
- While this is happening, the wind blows away a vehicle showing there will be no transport between the ship and the dome during the storm.
- As soon as David saves Shaw and Holloway and they are in the ship, Janek asks;

Janek; where's Milburn and Fifield?

Right after that, Janek contacted Milburn and Fifield.
And in the conversation Fiflield is still cursing out Shaw. This supports the idea that Fifield was agitated during this time which was about a half hour since his tantrum at this point.

* My conclusion; The time frame from when Miburn and Fifield left Shaw's group to when Shaw and her team got to the vehicles was about 18 minutes. After that Milburn and Fifield were stranded. 
- During that time the bridge crew were busy with the storm, Shaw's group was rushing back;
- While Fifield was agitated and confused and was bickering with Milburn.
In those 18 minutes the two scientists reminded me of these two airline pilots.

But when the pilots of Northwest Airlines flight 188 became distracted it had more serious consequences as they overflew their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles.

"They were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness," the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) explained.

When the pilots got their "situational awareness" back they turned the Airbus A320 around and landed it safely on Wednesday evening, apparently without any of the 144 passengers realising they had taken a roundabout route.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/23/northwest-pilots-argument-miss-runway

Imo at least. ;-)

[𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯]

1. The "fix" of the two scientists getting lost in the Spaihts script (they forgot the map) is not a fix.
A geologist forgetting a map of a newly discovered tunnel is a terrible idea and is not plausible. (Why not quickly realize the map was forgotten and walk back to get it?)
Ridley Scott improved this by making the geologist irritable and almost hysterical when seeing a dead giant alien. Even highly skilled professionals (like airline pilots) when agitated can be upset/distracted and get lost. That is a fact in our world.
- Ridley Scott and Lindelof fixed this problem in the Spaihts script.

A geologist forgetting a map of a newly discovered tunnel is a terrible idea and is not plausible.

Fifield wasn't a geologist in Spaiths draft. He was a low-life redneck prospector who was only there to make money. In Prometheus he still looks and acts like a low-life redneck prospector except he is now supposed to be a scientist because Lindelof thought that would be a cracking idea.

So yeah, he wasn't a "highly skilled professional (like airline pilots)", he was just an idiot who forgot to take a map reader with him when he left the rest of the party in his haste to get outside.

[bb-15]

1. The "fix" of the two scientists getting lost in the Spaihts script (they forgot the map) is not a fix.
A geologist forgetting a map of a newly discovered tunnel is a terrible idea and is not plausible. (Why not quickly realize the map was forgotten and walk back to get it?)
Ridley Scott improved this by making the geologist irritable and almost hysterical when seeing a dead giant alien. Even highly skilled professionals (like airline pilots) when agitated can be upset/distracted and get lost. That is a fact in our world.
- Ridley Scott and Lindelof fixed this problem in the Spaihts script.

A geologist forgetting a map of a newly discovered tunnel is a terrible idea and is not plausible.

Fifield wasn't a geologist in Spaiths draft.

Correct.

He was a low-life redneck prospector who was only there to make money...

he was just an idiot who forgot to take a map reader with him when he left the rest of the party in his haste to get outside.

- I'll begin with this topic.
That people who do prospecting in outer space (Fifield and Milburn in the Spaihts script) can be "idiots", as you put it.
Meaning that they have such poor technical skills that they don't even have the ability to remember to take a map in an unknown tunnel system.

* Outside of the horror elements, as science fiction films, how believable / (how "hard SF") are the Alien movies?
- Are the Alien movies just popcorn entertainment?
And with all due respect, and this is in no way intended to be an insult; but are the Alien films like Michael Bay's "Armageddon"?
- A lot of science fiction fans liked "Armageddon". It won the Hugo award for best science fiction movie.
But in terms of science, plausibility and logic, with the oil driller crew that went into space, "Armageddon" was silly.

Again, everyone has the privilege to their own personal taste. And I believe that no one's personal taste is wrong.
I am just describing the personal taste which involves either oil drillers in space or prospectors in outer space who can't figure out the importance of a map in an unknown tunnel system.

* My personal taste? I believe the Alien movies, outside of the horror elements, are serious, close to hard science fiction films.
So, using that standard for characters; a prospector in space looking for precious materials on planets, moons, and asteroids would not be seriously mentally defective (an "idiot").
Such a prospector could work in toxic or zero atmosphere conditions.
These prospectors would need to be experts in using space suits and preventing/dealing with damage to such suits.
Space prospectors would have expertise in keeping track of their oxygen levels, and toxic gases.
These prospectors could be in very low gravity situations and so would be experts in space walks, and using tethers.

* The Spaihts script idea of two experienced prospectors, who are able to find precious materials in the hostile environment of space; that they would both forget a map in an unknown tunnel system is from my POV a very bad idea.

And to me Ridley and Lindelof fixed it.

* If we have a major disagreement up to this point, then maybe our views are too far apart.
I'd be willing to agree to disagree.

** More ideas based on the Alien franchise films as serious, close to hard science fiction;

- Having prospectors on a scientific mission is another bad idea.
In the Spaihts script Weyland is not dying. He not only believes in the Engineer theory but Weyland in the Spaihts script also sets up the expedition; including getting the crew.
What are prospectors doing on this ship which according to the person doing the hiring (Weyland) is trying to make one of the greatest discoveries in the history of humanity?
Another bad idea from Spaihts imo.

From the Spaigts script, page 13;

WEYLAND (CONT'D)
My people checked your science. They
say it's solid...

WEYLAND (CONT'D)
I'll give you your expedition. Ship
and crew, supplies, support.

In Prometheus he still looks and acts like a low-life redneck prospector except he is now supposed to be a scientist because Lindelof thought that would be a cracking idea.

It is better to have Fifield and Milburn be scientists. It gives them a reason to be on board the ship.
(And Vickers, who never believed in the Engineer idea, did the hiring in the film which is an improvement over Weyland doing the hiring in the Spaihts script.)
The behavior of Fifield can be complained about. I have a bit of a problem with it but the Spaihts script idea of prospectors hitching a ride on the mission is worse.

So yeah, he wasn't a "highly skilled professional (like airline pilots)",

You missed my point. Pilots with navigating instruments can get lost.
Here are more examples;
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/13/travel/southwest-plane-wrong-airport/

Therefore a scientist with a navigating instrument can get lost.

But again, two people who are experienced prospectors completely forgetting a map in an unknown location?
Not plausible. 

imo at least. ;-)

[𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯]

Having prospectors on a scientific mission is another bad idea.
In the Spaihts script Weyland is not dying. He not only believes in the Engineer theory but Weyland in the Spaihts script also sets up the expedition; including getting the crew.
What are prospectors doing on this ship which according to the person doing the hiring (Weyland) is trying to make one of the greatest discoveries in the history of humanity?
Another bad idea from Spaihts imo.

The Magellan was an old and battered prospecting ship. Janek, the spit-and-sawdust captain, was packing a sidearm in case of a crew mutiny. Which gives you an idea of the kind of characters that were on-board. Weyland doesn't really give a shit about the mission, he gave them the f*cked-up ship and dodgy crew in case they were correct because he's after terraforming technology. He wasn't going to spend a trillion dollars on a hunch.

Shaw and Holloway were basically considered nutters, as most ancient-astronaut-advocates are. Weyland was the only one willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but not by much.

Spaiths' early drafts had lots of issues but at least he had realistic characters with believable motivations.

That people who do prospecting in outer space (Fifield and Milburn in the Spaihts script) can be "idiots", as you put it.
Meaning that they have such poor technical skills that they don't even have the ability to remember to take a map in an unknown tunnel system.

Much easier to believe that hot-headed space prospectors and space truckers would do dumb shit than highly trained and skilled scientists.

The Spaihts script idea of two experienced prospectors, who are able to find precious materials in the hostile environment of space; that they would both forget a map in an unknown tunnel system is from my POV a very bad idea.

And to me Ridley and Lindelof fixed it.

Yeah they fixed it alright. Now instead of two scared, dumbass rednecks forgetting to take a map reader with them in their haste to get outside we now have a skilled geologist in charge of mapping the tunnels getting lost for no apparent reason. Brilliant.

[HuDaFuK]

And to me Ridley and Lindelof fixed it.

The only thing Lindelof fixed was that he stopped the traditional Alien getting owned like a bunch of pansies (by removing them).

Literally everything else in the script he broke when it made perfect sense before.