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Author Topic: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space Jockey  (Read 4685 times)

Kol

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2012, 02:49:00 PM »
Trust me, not everyone interested in the ancient astronaut theory believes that aliens had direct influence on certain structures like the Giza pyramids.... Thats a complete misconception and probably best left for a History Channel television show, if you catch my drift.

forget it, some of us have just blinkers on.  ::)
the most think those who believes in the ancient astronaut theory, are as blind as those who believe in the bible and in every sense of the written words.

they don't could imagine, even not for 5 mins, how it could be that an entity landed on this planet, raised the flame of life & was gone.

you people never imagine how the first "fish" has grown it's legs and stranded on mainland? you only do talk about evolution, but don't make the images in your head's appear?  ???

ChrisPachi

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2012, 03:01:38 PM »
you people never imagine how the first "fish" has grown it's legs and stranded on mainland? you only do talk about evolution, but don't make the images in your head's appear?  ???



 ;D

dxdt

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2012, 03:54:11 PM »
forget it, some of us have just blinkers on.  ::)
the most think those who believes in the ancient astronaut theory, are as blind as those who believe in the bible and in every sense of the written words.

they don't could imagine, even not for 5 mins, how it could be that an entity landed on this planet, raised the flame of life & was gone.

you people never imagine how the first "fish" has grown it's legs and stranded on mainland? you only do talk about evolution, but don't make the images in your head's appear?  ???

Why imagine it? It's right here! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7jSp2xmmEE#noexternalembed Now he's a fish, now he's got legs! QED.

No no, here's the serious answer. On the contrary, I can very well imagine "how it could be that an entity landed on this planet, raised the flame of life, and was gone." And I have. But faced with every verifiable piece of evidence we can record, including the vastness of empty space, and thus the improbability of any two bodies meeting, including an alien superbeing and our planet, that hypothesis becomes diminishingly implausible. Especially when we have a perfectly good theory to explain the diversity of life on Earth, once the flame was sparked.

Now how was the flame sparked? That's the question, and in all honesty I have to admit there's as much evidence of "giant blue men" as there is of any alternative. Which is to say, there is none.  No evidence exists to support any theory of the origin of life on Earth. If it ever did, it's lost to time and possibly irrecoverable. Not unlike, if you wish, the initial conditions of one of those chaotic processes.

But still, there's no more need to invoke ancient astronauts than to invoke "And God said..." as you suggest. I wouldn't say advocates of either theory are blind but perhaps rather hyperperceptive, seeing something there's no evidence of. Why not consider panspermia or abiogenesis? Such weird and wonderful possibilities when you really do think about it!

180924609

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2012, 03:56:08 PM »
Ancient Astronaut?



Deuterium

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2012, 04:00:00 PM »
you people never imagine how the first "fish" has grown it's legs and stranded on mainland? you only do talk about evolution, but don't make the images in your head's appear?  ???

This sentence hurts my brain.  No offense meant, especially if English isn't your first language.

OpenMaw

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2012, 04:10:56 PM »
The late, great, Carl Sagan can sum it up for you in about 20 minutes.

Cosmic Calender


Evolution


Natural Selection



And as a bonus, chemicals elements:



There's no need for an alien to have visited Earth. All the pieces were there just waiting to come together. Over billions of years, they did.


Capovin

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2012, 07:55:55 PM »
Really we're getting into this again?? Okay let's say there is no need, that still doesn't exclude the possibility. The problem with ancient astronaut theory is that there's no real physical evidence of it and there are perfectly good explanations for how everything came about anyway right? Oh and that it devalues our accomplishments as a race (I don't take offense to that as I've never had the strongest faith in mankind anyway). So our two real issues are there's perfectly good explanations that make sense and no real proof. Well what if, hypothetically, 100 years from now, we found evidence, that ran contrary to the popular, established theories, evidence that Ancient Astronauts did actually exist, then we adjusted our current theories to fit in that piece of information. That is literally ALL this movie is asking you to do. Like I said in the other thread, we don't know everything, haven't discovered everything there is to discover, if we found a flying saucer buried 200 feet below the sphynx, with maps and such detailing their involvement in our past, then we might rethink things, once that physical evidence is retrieved. Now you may find that a ridiculous idea, but you don't know what will be discovered in the future, hell people thought the idea of evolution was ridiculous. Seriously I do not see the problem with having AA part of the movie. It may not be to your personal taste, and in your opinion it is completely ridiculous. However I know all the reasons you dislike the idea, yet I still don't find it ridiculous, am I just a complete moron? No I just have a different opinion than you, as many people do. Deal with it.

Glaive

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2012, 09:10:11 PM »
Why is all this ridicule being heaped on Ancient Astronaut Theory and it's connection to 'Prometheus'?

Kubrick's film is CERTAINLY that 'theory', and worked gangbusters...

It's NOT the premise, it's the EXECUTION!

OpenMaw

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2012, 09:39:57 PM »
Why is all this ridicule being heaped on Ancient Astronaut Theory and it's connection to 'Prometheus'?

Kubrick's film is CERTAINLY that 'theory', and worked gangbusters...

It's NOT the premise, it's the EXECUTION!

The way it was done in 2001 was entirely different. There were no traces left behind for man to find on Earth. Everything humans found about the alien race, any hint of their existence was elsewhere. There influence upon the early ape man was pretty much invisible.

The modern take on the AA theory has people trying to imply that major portions of human culture were subject of "Chariots of the Gods" syndrome.

Deuterium

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2012, 10:15:36 PM »

The way it was done in 2001 was entirely different. There were no traces left behind for man to find on Earth. Everything humans found about the alien race, any hint of their existence was elsewhere. There influence upon the early ape man was pretty much invisible.

The modern take on the AA theory has people trying to imply that major portions of human culture were subject of "Chariots of the Gods" syndrome.

Absolutely.  And if I remember correctly, Arthur C. Clarke's short story, "The Sentinel", upon which 2001:  A Space Odyssey was based, had the original artifact on the Moon.  There was no "Dawn of Man" sequence in the original story.  The implication was that the advanced alien intelligence had absolutely nothing to do with human development/evolution, and had no idea if, when, and what form intelligent life would manifest on Earth.  They left the artifact to simply "alert" the original makers when an advanced, space-faring civilization developed on Earth. 

Xenomorphine

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2012, 12:22:46 AM »
The late, great, Carl Sagan can sum it up for you in about 20 minutes.


Don't torture poor Morpheus... :-[

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlpyGhABXRA (The video's owner prevents external embedding)

OpenMaw

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2012, 01:02:01 AM »
Don't torture poor Morpheus... :-[

...You'll have to take his place then, i'm afraid.

180924609

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2012, 07:45:45 AM »
"2001" is based on both "The Sentinel" (1951) and "Encounter in the Dawn" (1953).

"Encounter in the Dawn" is actually a great short story that initially sounds like a typical Star Trek episode where a primitive race is discovered on a distant world. The story's main astronaut befriends a primitive (named Yaan) and hopes to teach him new skills with a few basic tools in the hope that the primative race would leap forward from barbarism in a few generations rather than wait for them to figure it out for themselves (oh dear, The Prime Directive wasnt invented back then!). Unfortunately, our story's astronauts have to leave the expedition in a hurry to help out in some galactic war or some such.

Anyways, the closing sentence is, as ever with Arthur C. Clarke, brilliant.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Once again though I reiterate that "Encounter in the Dawn" and "2001" did not imply the creation of mankind, they merely introduce new technology that would hopefully inspire the mind to create better and better technology. (as if that wasnt the goal of every single species on Earth anyway)

The Prometheus story appears to be a regression to the dark ages school of thought where everything has to be created by fairies. Nine foot tall bald space fairies.

timiteh

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2012, 12:06:08 PM »
People have a problem with it because it implies human beings needed help to get where we are, and it tries to explain very specific things with the excuse of "ALIENS HELPED US!" When we know, now especially, there were explinations just waiting to be discovered.

I don't see what is wrong with the fact we got help from aliens or superior beings.
In a twisted way perhaps that those beings needed our help for something else.

For example. The Pyramids... ALIENS.

I am myself would not be surprized if aliens or superior beings built the first pyramids, those such as the pyramid of kheops, and taught humans how to build the others smaller, less resilient ones.

It's just pathetically lazy.

Why ?
Didn't german scientists help the U.S.A for space program ?
Wasn't lead of the team who build the Saturn V a german scientist who happened to be the one who built the missiles for Hitler ?
Were the U.S scientists consider lazy or incompetent because of that ?

Let me put it into a really stupid example.

I have a scratch on my arm, it's a very nasty scratch too. I have no idea where it came from. It wasn't there when I went to bed, and I can't see any sharp objects around where I was laying when I woke up...

...IT MUST HAVE BEEN THOSE PESKY ALIENS.

Isn't it the same for people who think that whatever problem they have come from demons (or djinns for Arabic people) or other evil spirits ?
Isn't it the same for people who think human can achieve absolutely nothing without God intervention or help ?
Only a minority of people believing in the Ancient Astronaut theory believe that the Aliens are responsible that anything which happens or happened to us.
In the same way only a relative minority of believers in God, think that God or demons are responsible for anything good or bad which  happens or happened to us.

More than likely the answer to questions, like how the Hell the pyramids or other ancient wonders were achieved comes down to one simple explanation; We just don't fully understand the engineering involved yet, it was something we lost to the annals of time. There was that huge chasm in our history known as the Dark Ages. The fall of classical civilization. It took us a long time to finally come out of that madness. Along the way a lot of books, a lot of knowledge, was lost. Human cultivated knowledge. We've been relearning a lot of that, and in most respects far surpassed it, but for where we have great machines to dig and forge, in ancient times they had to use massive slave armies to build things. They had to do everything manually. And to some, it just seems inconceivable that it could be done, and yet, "there it is."

Or ancient civilizations got some help from aliens or superior beings that they call gods or demons.
I believe that the ancients were not as stupid and as primitive as people think they were.
And if they were not stupid ,and i think that some ancient people were smarter than us, why can't we give them the credit to tell the truth regarding superior beings with whom they were in interaction and that they called gods ?
And if they told the truth regarding these beings, why can't we acknowledge that those superior beings could have help mankind evolve or have access to some of their technology ?

OpenMaw

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Re: Ancient Astronaut Theory & The Space...
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2012, 12:33:22 PM »
I don't see what is wrong with the fact we got help from aliens or superior beings.
In a twisted way perhaps that those beings needed our help for something else.

That's simply because it's something you want to believe in. I've stated repeatedly why the explanation is extraneous, over complicated, and all together unnecessary. There is no proof of alien life assisting early man. None. We've studied very thoroughly every instance of abandoned ruins, old cities, derelict towns, etc... That we find, and there has never been one indication. Not once, of extraterrestrial life visiting us.

There is, however, proof that human beings dragged on, tooth and nail, for hundreds of centuries to get where we are today.


I am myself would not be surprized if aliens or superior beings built the first pyramids, those such as the pyramid of kheops, and taught humans how to build the others smaller, less resilient ones.

Once again. It's a matter of belief that runs contrary to the established facts and evidence.

This is almost starting to drift into "Evolution is still just a theory" territory.



Why ?
Didn't german scientists help the U.S.A for space program ?
Wasn't lead of the team who build the Saturn V a german scientist who happened to be the one who built the missiles for Hitler ?
Were the U.S scientists consider lazy or incompetent because of that ?

I'm saying it's lazy on the part of people who believe in it, because they clearly haven't picked up a book and actually read about our collective species' history.

It's like those who choose to believe in Creationism or Intelligent Design who stand from their point of belief and say that evolution is just a theory. Now, I have nothing against people having personal beliefs, but when it starts driving like a semi-truck into on coming traffic (the facts) and trying to usurp said facts, I take a huge offense to that.

Not to mention, if we were to use your example, we have proof as to whether the Germans did or did not help us. Yes?

We have no proof an "Ancient Astronaut" even existed! Let alone whether it ever visited Earth, or even helped man out. There are no records of any account that identify such a being.

Isn't it the same for people who think that whatever problem they have come from demons (or djinns for Arabic people) or other evil spirits ?
Isn't it the same for people who think human can achieve absolutely nothing without God intervention or help ?
Only a minority of people believing in the Ancient Astronaut theory believe that the Aliens are responsible that anything which happens or happened to us.
In the same way only a relative minority of believers in God, think that God or demons are responsible for anything good or bad which  happens or happened to us.

Yes, and most of those people keep that kind of crap in their own homes, or in their churches. Most of them don't bring it out into the real world and try to force it on others, especially whilst flying into the face of the facts.

Those, in the minority, that do that are; assholes.

Or ancient civilizations got some help from aliens or superior beings that they call gods or demons.
I believe that the ancients were not as stupid and as primitive as people think they were.
And if they were not stupid ,and i think that some ancient people were smarter than us, why can't we give them the credit to tell the truth regarding superior beings with whom they were in interaction and that they called gods ?
And if they told the truth regarding these beings, why can't we acknowledge that those superior beings could have help mankind evolve or have access to some of their technology ?

I based my remarks on facts. You base yours on a belief, or a potential belief. There is no proof anywhere that aliens ever came here. Nowhere. Not in any of the remaining ancient city ruins. Not near any of the pyramids. Not in any of the major areas human beings have existed across the known stretch of human civilization existed. Not one cell. No calling cards. No foot prints. Nothing. Not a shred of proof to base the theory on.

Run that next to what we have discovered and learned about ourselves and how so many things came to be, without any need of a higher alien being to come down here and poke at us every now and again. In fact, in some instances it would be extraneous to explain alien interference into the equation.

Also, the belief in the ancient astronaut theory does imply a level of stupidity that didn't exist. It implies we couldn't figure out how to do the things ourselves and aliens came and helped us. It says, pretty clearly, that if aliens hadn't shown up, we wouldn't have a civilization of any description! That's the entire point. It's saying we didn't occur naturally, that we're some kind of a odd species out of the rest.

 

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