Films/TV > Alien Films

How good is the firepower in Aliens compared to wh...

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Snark:

--- Quote from: shadowedge on Mar 25, 2012, 04:18:46 AM ---I am not an expert at guns at all. I don't really know anything about them really. That said how does the firepower in Aliens compare to what we give our modern military today?

The M41A Pulse Rifle

M56 Smartgun

Hick's Shotgun

M240 Flamethrower

Pistol

UA571-C Remote Automated Sentry System

Also how much damage would the above weapons do compared to what we have available today?

--- End quote ---



Nothing really more advanced than what is currently available.

There are real caseless ammunition guns in the world. It is actually old technology by today's standards. One famous weapon that used this was the H&K G11.






Of course the main sidearm of the USCM is the H&K VP70M made in the 60's and 70's. It was unchanged for the movie.

Omegazilla:

--- Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Mar 25, 2012, 04:28:40 AM ---"We're calling in chupacabras acheronsis ASAP!"

--- End quote ---
That was my first thought!

Valaquen:
I had a look a while ago, and wrote in an article:


--- Quote ---To look at the weaponry the Colonial Marines are carrying, according to Gorman, the pulse rifles and smart guns use 10mm explosive tip caseless, light armour piercing rounds. 10mm rounds were initially used as the FBI's round of choice, though the recoil was unsavoury and the bullet replaced by a modified round. The 10mm auto rounds then found usage in Heckler & Koch's MP5/10 machine-gun, and apparently, due to high stopping power and performance, the round is still used by several special forces agencies. Apparently, lighter and faster bullets are better for penetration than thicker rounds. The term 'explosive tipped' needs little explanation, it's all in the name there, but essentially, explosive tipped bullets are made to penetrate thick surfaces, be it body armour, walls, or tanks and naval vessels [as they were originally designed to destroy] and inflict explosive damage. Once the armour piercing tip has perforated a surface, the bullet detonates [and if the bullet doesn't penetrate a surface, the little explosive is intended to detontate regardless, and blow it apart]. Generally speaking, explosive ammunition begins at 20MM, but this is the future, right?

Interestingly, the Marines' ammo is described as being 'caseless', which is largely still an experimental kind of ammo. Caseless ammunition is, again, rather obvious to explain [all in the name!] but essentially, it is a round that does not have casing. The obvious benefits of this include lighter and more compact ammo, and no need to arrange for the extraction and ejection of the fired case, perhaps the principal source of weapon jams. It remains experimental due to the fact that the rounds are more vulnerable to damage and 'cooking off', which leads to explosive rounds [we see this in the movie, where the ammo bag catches fire and summarily explodes]. Any problems with caseless ammo, obviously, must have been patched out by the time of the Alien series, and the caseless rounds proliferated into common military use.

Actual caseless weapons have been built by K&H, but never caught on. The weapon, the HK G11, boasts that 'assault rifles in service around the world today are too heavy as individual weapons due to the caliber. Their recoil is excessive and it is impossible to keep them aimed on targets during sustained fire,' and also that the HK G11 caseless rounds ensure 'reduced packing volume and high magazine capacity ... reduces the cartridge weight considerably ... high rate of fire is possible in the 3-round burst due to the combination of a short cartridge and a minimal feed distance ... The sensitivity to cross wind is less than that of other comparable bullets ... Penetration capability through hard targets has been fully achieved. A German steel helmet [NATO test medium] is penetrated at distances up to 600m.'

All in all, once all the creases are ironed out, as I imagine they would be by the time of Aliens [roughly 2179], we have a pretty destructive weapon. A light, fast [up to 1200RPM for the smart gun, apparently], steel piercing, explosive, dead-on bullet. How could the Aliens not be hurt by these? Because of their exoskeleton? After almost 30 years of armour development, no body armour around will protect you from common machine gun fire. Full military armour is only effective after a distance of 14 meters, otherwise, your guts are gone. An exoskeleton is toothpaste when faced with a barrage of armour piercing, explosive tipped rounds
--- End quote ---

shadowedge:

--- Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 25, 2012, 01:15:48 PM ---I had a look a while ago, and wrote in an article:


--- Quote ---To look at the weaponry the Colonial Marines are carrying, according to Gorman, the pulse rifles and smart guns use 10mm explosive tip caseless, light armour piercing rounds. 10mm rounds were initially used as the FBI's round of choice, though the recoil was unsavoury and the bullet replaced by a modified round. The 10mm auto rounds then found usage in Heckler & Koch's MP5/10 machine-gun, and apparently, due to high stopping power and performance, the round is still used by several special forces agencies. Apparently, lighter and faster bullets are better for penetration than thicker rounds. The term 'explosive tipped' needs little explanation, it's all in the name there, but essentially, explosive tipped bullets are made to penetrate thick surfaces, be it body armour, walls, or tanks and naval vessels [as they were originally designed to destroy] and inflict explosive damage. Once the armour piercing tip has perforated a surface, the bullet detonates [and if the bullet doesn't penetrate a surface, the little explosive is intended to detontate regardless, and blow it apart]. Generally speaking, explosive ammunition begins at 20MM, but this is the future, right?

Interestingly, the Marines' ammo is described as being 'caseless', which is largely still an experimental kind of ammo. Caseless ammunition is, again, rather obvious to explain [all in the name!] but essentially, it is a round that does not have casing. The obvious benefits of this include lighter and more compact ammo, and no need to arrange for the extraction and ejection of the fired case, perhaps the principal source of weapon jams. It remains experimental due to the fact that the rounds are more vulnerable to damage and 'cooking off', which leads to explosive rounds [we see this in the movie, where the ammo bag catches fire and summarily explodes]. Any problems with caseless ammo, obviously, must have been patched out by the time of the Alien series, and the caseless rounds proliferated into common military use.

Actual caseless weapons have been built by K&H, but never caught on. The weapon, the HK G11, boasts that 'assault rifles in service around the world today are too heavy as individual weapons due to the caliber. Their recoil is excessive and it is impossible to keep them aimed on targets during sustained fire,' and also that the HK G11 caseless rounds ensure 'reduced packing volume and high magazine capacity ... reduces the cartridge weight considerably ... high rate of fire is possible in the 3-round burst due to the combination of a short cartridge and a minimal feed distance ... The sensitivity to cross wind is less than that of other comparable bullets ... Penetration capability through hard targets has been fully achieved. A German steel helmet [NATO test medium] is penetrated at distances up to 600m.'

All in all, once all the creases are ironed out, as I imagine they would be by the time of Aliens [roughly 2179], we have a pretty destructive weapon. A light, fast [up to 1200RPM for the smart gun, apparently], steel piercing, explosive, dead-on bullet. How could the Aliens not be hurt by these? Because of their exoskeleton? After almost 30 years of armour development, no body armour around will protect you from common machine gun fire. Full military armour is only effective after a distance of 14 meters, otherwise, your guts are gone. An exoskeleton is toothpaste when faced with a barrage of armour piercing, explosive tipped rounds
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

Nice explanation Valaquen!

I was kind of worried since 10mm doesn't sound like it is very big but I was wrong.

For the body armor thing, I do know that what we have today cannot do that much against assault rifles. Isn't the Interceptor body armor good for one or two assault rifle bullets, then it spiderweb cracks so further bullets may penetrate it? A former soldier told me this so I assume it is true.

chupacabras acheronsis:
well, no point in repeating what everyone said now. but i'd like to remark how nothing in aliens was truly ficticious. everything was created on the asumption that something that already existed but couldn't work due to whatever was fixed at some point in the future. caseless ammo exists, and the overheating problem is being solved right now. electronically fired ammo. explosive armor piercing rounds. pump action grenade launchers have been used since vietnam. even the smart grenades of the technical manual are taken directly from the OICW program. the pulse rifle is an ideal aplication of the concept, a force multiplier that turns the single infantryman into a one man fireteam.

it goes on and on. the smartgun is esentially this:

...using a squad machinegun and a mechanical arm. it's a concept armies are just getting around now, of  a highly mobile support system that acts as a mainstay in squad manouvers by using superior volume of fire and accuracy. the smartgun is the next step, it gives you a single crewed heavy weapon you can use effectively even while on the move and still deliver pin point accuracy and deal devastating damage. and you can do all that behind cover.

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