How good is the firepower in Aliens compared to what we have today?

[shadowedge]

I am not an expert at guns at all. I don't really know anything about them really. That said how does the firepower in Aliens compare to what we give our modern military today?

The M41A Pulse Rifle

M56 Smartgun

Hick's Shotgun

M240 Flamethrower

Pistol

UA571-C Remote Automated Sentry System

Also how much damage would the above weapons do compared to what we have available today?

[MrSpaceJockey]

"We're calling in chupacabras acheronsis ASAP!"

[OpenMaw]

I am not an expert at guns at all. I don't really know anything about them really. That said how does the firepower in Aliens compare to what we give our modern military today?

The M41A Pulse Rifle

M56 Smartgun

Hick's Shotgun

M240 Flamethrower

Pistol

UA571-C Remote Automated Sentry System

Also how much damage would the above weapons do compared to what we have available today?

Well, with some of those weapons they do exactly what the modern equivalants do. The Shotgun and Flamethrower perform just as modern versions would.

The pistol, no idea.

The Pulse Rifle fires some kind of a futuristic ammunition "10MM explosive tipped caseless." They are an AP round as Gorman says. So... Well, they pack a lot of punch, and seem to crack the armor of the aliens very nicely. This can also be contrasted with the pistol, which the ammunition in those seems to just bounce off the armor unless it's at point blank range.

The Smartgun, as the name implies has some kind of "smart" tracking. (I'm assuming this is similar to the motion tracker in some fashion). Whether it fires the same kind of 10MM ammunition as the Pulse Rifle is unknown, the movie never really tells us. Though i'd imagine that it does. 

Honestly, in terms of actual warfare the Smartgun is an awful design. It pretty much forces the user to stand up and fire, which is baaaad. It's a kickass piece of sci fi hardware. (Just like Blaine's 'portable' minigun in Predator is just a kickass piece of hardware and nothing more.)

The Sentry Gun I can't honestly comment on, aside from the fact that they wouldn't be all that effective in actual military use. A. They're fixed positions. B. They can likely be very easily fooled into firing at something else, giving a sniper ample opportunity to disable the device.

In the movie world of Aliens, their weapons seem to be very excellent and potent. In reality? I think it's not really fair to compare the two. Modern infantry weapons are very modular Things like different barrel lengths, all sorts of attachments that can be equipped, different ammo types, many cutting edge rifles can withstand incredibly amounts of punishment and still operate perfectly.. Many people have seemed to think that modern military grade rounds couldn't penetrate alien armor. I'd disagree. I think they would all stand a fair chance of penetrating xeno skin. They probably wouldn't make them explode in mist clouds of acid like they did in Aliens, though. 

[CarnalCalligraphy]

Why would you differ? What evidence do you have of that? I'm taking no position either way, I'm just awaiting the data.

[Don PapI]

I was tinkin the other day about this, and i think those wapons are not as advance as they should be. i spent time thinkin wich kind of weapons should they

[Snark]

I am not an expert at guns at all. I don't really know anything about them really. That said how does the firepower in Aliens compare to what we give our modern military today?

The M41A Pulse Rifle

M56 Smartgun

Hick's Shotgun

M240 Flamethrower

Pistol

UA571-C Remote Automated Sentry System

Also how much damage would the above weapons do compared to what we have available today?

Nothing really more advanced than what is currently available.

There are real caseless ammunition guns in the world. It is actually old technology by today's standards. One famous weapon that used this was the H&K G11.






Of course the main sidearm of the USCM is the H&K VP70M made in the 60's and 70's. It was unchanged for the movie.

[OmegaZilla]

"We're calling in chupacabras acheronsis ASAP!"

That was my first thought!

[Valaquen]

I had a look a while ago, and wrote in an article:

To look at the weaponry the Colonial Marines are carrying, according to Gorman, the pulse rifles and smart guns use 10mm explosive tip caseless, light armour piercing rounds. 10mm rounds were initially used as the FBI's round of choice, though the recoil was unsavoury and the bullet replaced by a modified round. The 10mm auto rounds then found usage in Heckler & Koch's MP5/10 machine-gun, and apparently, due to high stopping power and performance, the round is still used by several special forces agencies. Apparently, lighter and faster bullets are better for penetration than thicker rounds. The term 'explosive tipped' needs little explanation, it's all in the name there, but essentially, explosive tipped bullets are made to penetrate thick surfaces, be it body armour, walls, or tanks and naval vessels [as they were originally designed to destroy] and inflict explosive damage. Once the armour piercing tip has perforated a surface, the bullet detonates [and if the bullet doesn't penetrate a surface, the little explosive is intended to detontate regardless, and blow it apart]. Generally speaking, explosive ammunition begins at 20MM, but this is the future, right?

Interestingly, the Marines' ammo is described as being 'caseless', which is largely still an experimental kind of ammo. Caseless ammunition is, again, rather obvious to explain [all in the name!] but essentially, it is a round that does not have casing. The obvious benefits of this include lighter and more compact ammo, and no need to arrange for the extraction and ejection of the fired case, perhaps the principal source of weapon jams. It remains experimental due to the fact that the rounds are more vulnerable to damage and 'cooking off', which leads to explosive rounds [we see this in the movie, where the ammo bag catches fire and summarily explodes]. Any problems with caseless ammo, obviously, must have been patched out by the time of the Alien series, and the caseless rounds proliferated into common military use.

Actual caseless weapons have been built by K&H, but never caught on. The weapon, the HK G11, boasts that 'assault rifles in service around the world today are too heavy as individual weapons due to the caliber. Their recoil is excessive and it is impossible to keep them aimed on targets during sustained fire,' and also that the HK G11 caseless rounds ensure 'reduced packing volume and high magazine capacity ... reduces the cartridge weight considerably ... high rate of fire is possible in the 3-round burst due to the combination of a short cartridge and a minimal feed distance ... The sensitivity to cross wind is less than that of other comparable bullets ... Penetration capability through hard targets has been fully achieved. A German steel helmet [NATO test medium] is penetrated at distances up to 600m.'

All in all, once all the creases are ironed out, as I imagine they would be by the time of Aliens [roughly 2179], we have a pretty destructive weapon. A light, fast [up to 1200RPM for the smart gun, apparently], steel piercing, explosive, dead-on bullet. How could the Aliens not be hurt by these? Because of their exoskeleton? After almost 30 years of armour development, no body armour around will protect you from common machine gun fire. Full military armour is only effective after a distance of 14 meters, otherwise, your guts are gone. An exoskeleton is toothpaste when faced with a barrage of armour piercing, explosive tipped rounds

[shadowedge]

I had a look a while ago, and wrote in an article:

To look at the weaponry the Colonial Marines are carrying, according to Gorman, the pulse rifles and smart guns use 10mm explosive tip caseless, light armour piercing rounds. 10mm rounds were initially used as the FBI's round of choice, though the recoil was unsavoury and the bullet replaced by a modified round. The 10mm auto rounds then found usage in Heckler & Koch's MP5/10 machine-gun, and apparently, due to high stopping power and performance, the round is still used by several special forces agencies. Apparently, lighter and faster bullets are better for penetration than thicker rounds. The term 'explosive tipped' needs little explanation, it's all in the name there, but essentially, explosive tipped bullets are made to penetrate thick surfaces, be it body armour, walls, or tanks and naval vessels [as they were originally designed to destroy] and inflict explosive damage. Once the armour piercing tip has perforated a surface, the bullet detonates [and if the bullet doesn't penetrate a surface, the little explosive is intended to detontate regardless, and blow it apart]. Generally speaking, explosive ammunition begins at 20MM, but this is the future, right?

Interestingly, the Marines' ammo is described as being 'caseless', which is largely still an experimental kind of ammo. Caseless ammunition is, again, rather obvious to explain [all in the name!] but essentially, it is a round that does not have casing. The obvious benefits of this include lighter and more compact ammo, and no need to arrange for the extraction and ejection of the fired case, perhaps the principal source of weapon jams. It remains experimental due to the fact that the rounds are more vulnerable to damage and 'cooking off', which leads to explosive rounds [we see this in the movie, where the ammo bag catches fire and summarily explodes]. Any problems with caseless ammo, obviously, must have been patched out by the time of the Alien series, and the caseless rounds proliferated into common military use.

Actual caseless weapons have been built by K&H, but never caught on. The weapon, the HK G11, boasts that 'assault rifles in service around the world today are too heavy as individual weapons due to the caliber. Their recoil is excessive and it is impossible to keep them aimed on targets during sustained fire,' and also that the HK G11 caseless rounds ensure 'reduced packing volume and high magazine capacity ... reduces the cartridge weight considerably ... high rate of fire is possible in the 3-round burst due to the combination of a short cartridge and a minimal feed distance ... The sensitivity to cross wind is less than that of other comparable bullets ... Penetration capability through hard targets has been fully achieved. A German steel helmet [NATO test medium] is penetrated at distances up to 600m.'

All in all, once all the creases are ironed out, as I imagine they would be by the time of Aliens [roughly 2179], we have a pretty destructive weapon. A light, fast [up to 1200RPM for the smart gun, apparently], steel piercing, explosive, dead-on bullet. How could the Aliens not be hurt by these? Because of their exoskeleton? After almost 30 years of armour development, no body armour around will protect you from common machine gun fire. Full military armour is only effective after a distance of 14 meters, otherwise, your guts are gone. An exoskeleton is toothpaste when faced with a barrage of armour piercing, explosive tipped rounds

Nice explanation Valaquen!

I was kind of worried since 10mm doesn't sound like it is very big but I was wrong.

For the body armor thing, I do know that what we have today cannot do that much against assault rifles. Isn't the Interceptor body armor good for one or two assault rifle bullets, then it spiderweb cracks so further bullets may penetrate it? A former soldier told me this so I assume it is true.

[chupacabras acheronsis]

well, no point in repeating what everyone said now. but i'd like to remark how nothing in aliens was truly ficticious. everything was created on the asumption that something that already existed but couldn't work due to whatever was fixed at some point in the future. caseless ammo exists, and the overheating problem is being solved right now. electronically fired ammo. explosive armor piercing rounds. pump action grenade launchers have been used since vietnam. even the smart grenades of the technical manual are taken directly from the OICW program. the pulse rifle is an ideal aplication of the concept, a force multiplier that turns the single infantryman into a one man fireteam.

it goes on and on. the smartgun is esentially this:

...using a squad machinegun and a mechanical arm. it's a concept armies are just getting around now, of  a highly mobile support system that acts as a mainstay in squad manouvers by using superior volume of fire and accuracy. the smartgun is the next step, it gives you a single crewed heavy weapon you can use effectively even while on the move and still deliver pin point accuracy and deal devastating damage. and you can do all that behind cover.

[Dowly]

Honestly, in terms of actual warfare the Smartgun is an awful design. It pretty much forces the user to stand up and fire, which is baaaad. It's a kickass piece of sci fi hardware. (Just like Blaine's 'portable' minigun in Predator is just a kickass piece of hardware and nothing more.)

I'm not all that familiar with the Smartgun, but is there something that would prevent the soldier from resting the weapon
on a window or other object and use it as modern LMG's are used, as a support weapon?

[chupacabras acheronsis]

nothing forces the user to be standing to fire the smartgun. the ACMTM shows us how:




the smartgunner doesn't even need to see the field of fire, the monocle lets him use the gun as a periscope.

[Dowly]

Thought it should be possible, thanks chupacabras. 

[CarnalCalligraphy]

Okay, so if true to the original films, how would a predator fare against the Marine unit in Aliens. I'd also like to know how you think a Predator might fare against a modern spec ops unit.

[OpenMaw]

I'm not all that familiar with the Smartgun, but is there something that would prevent the soldier from resting the weapon
on a window or other object and use it as modern LMG's are used, as a support weapon?

Well, I was honestly going by the way it was operated in the film. There's no indication of the function of the eye piece in the movie. Just looking at it, it's often fixed to the torso with that steady cam arm, which would prevent the user from rapidly setting it up for defense behind small cover. It clearly doesn't handle as well as current squad support weapons would.

Buuuut....

nothing forces the user to be standing to fire the smartgun. the ACMTM shows us how:

http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/uscm.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/Zer07/firingfromcover.jpg

the smartgunner doesn't even need to see the field of fire, the monocle lets him use the gun as a periscope.

This kinda changes things.  It's a shame we never actually saw the smartgunner's in the movie behaving this way. (Like when they first approach the storm shutters, we see them just standing right out in the open.