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Author Topic: LV-426?  (Read 13682 times)

fiveways

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #165 on: Mar 24, 2012, 11:45:36 AM »

they both orbit a ringed gas giant, but i don't know how significant that is, considering literally half of the planets in our own solar system are ringed gas giants.

Two, at best, have rings dense enough to be noted here, and I'm not sold on Uranus yet.


... the one in alien is simply derelict with no sign of a crash. in the original script, it was safely landed.

For all we know SJ ships regenerate like Borg ships. 





and yet, our planet looks almost exactly identical to the way it did right before the extinction event.


What about 50 years after the asteroid strike?



now, if these "space jockeys" can do something to a planet in 11 minutes that makes the K-T event look insignificant... why the hell are they screwing around with wimpy little xenomorphs? these guys have weapons of planetary destruction. they literally have to move LV-426's orbit to make it change this drastically.

The SJ's have a space ship.  They can replicate the K-T event.  Xenomorphs may be for use when they want a planet (mostly) intact, minus the major life forms.  Although I doubt the Xenomorphs could take over a well armed planet.  I don't really know what the xenomorphs are good for.  Maybe they aren't a weapon and they didn't kill the SJ race.   




Basically you said exactly what i came here to reply too[Like every point].  And exactly to the xenomorphs.  I think the xeno is a really watered down version of the biological weapon.  In a more pure form it would ransack a population in a matter of hours to days.

Hell we don't even know what the ampules truly do yet beyond mutate people in weird and wonderful ways and cause humans to birth a mini cthulhu.

Didn't one of the early plot overviews that fox put up on IMDB and had taken down say they were resource hunters?  totally planetary destruction and resource harvesting really don't go hand in hand.
« Last Edit: Mar 24, 2012, 11:54:56 AM by fiveways »

Ballzanya

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #166 on: Mar 24, 2012, 09:33:46 PM »
The ringed gas giant isn't Lv-426, its the planet that it orbits. If I'm not mistaken there were other moons orbiting it as well. The events of Prometheus are most likely on one of those other moons or planetoids.

jeremy_ray

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #167 on: Mar 24, 2012, 10:18:19 PM »
fiveways - It sounds like the Alien we've seen so far is weaker due to mixing with a human host.  The Dogburster Alien isn't worlds different though.  Not as different as it sounds like the Prometheus Xenos will be, which is odd considering a dog is more unlike a human than the SJ's may be.

The "biological weapon" angle doesn't make much sense.  They can reproduce themselves, but it takes time.  It's not as fast as manufacturing a robot.  I think you could do more with small swarming robots than the Alien.  It doesn't take a 9 foot tall monster to kill a man.  A drop of poison on a robot the size of a fly will do.  The Alien works great as a natural organism that can kill effectively when you're unprepared for it, but a squad of  not-ready Colonial Marines was able to wreak havoc on the LV-426 hive.  The LV-426 hive lost its Queen.  Imagine if they had one guy in an enclosed, acid proof mech suit.  The Colonial Marines have the technology.  One guy could stomp bugs all day long.

The idea of the Predators breeding Aliens for sport is pretty good though.       

Ballzanya - I tend to think it's most likely another moon in the LV-42X system as well.  But - to get to the Alien universe we know, this entire complex has to be destroyed.  With Prometheus gone, what do the human survivors have to work with other than the SJ's tools?  Maybe they throw an SJ terraforming plant into super-overdrive. 

I'm not married to this being LV-426 but it can't be ruled out.  I believe we can count on a phenomenal amount of destruction at the end of this movie, unless all this stuff is destroyed in the sequel. 

Ballzanya

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #168 on: Mar 24, 2012, 10:51:18 PM »
Wait wait, every extra-solar planet we know about is a gas giant? Since when? We've known of plenty of POTENTIAL hard surfaced planets out there. It's just pretty much impossible to verify because we don't have any probes that are out far enough (close enough to other solar systems, that'll be centuries from now.).

Really, it's pretty much cut and dry this is not LV-426. At this point it just feels like a lot of denial sweeping those who really really really really want it to be. I just hope those of you out there who do, aren't too disappointed when it's not.

Actually, Prometheus stuff aside, in reality, the first exoplanets discovered have all been gas giants, but not due to a profundity of them over earth sized planets, but because they were easier to detect. Since then, more smaller planets have been discovered in other solar systems.  ;D ;D

StrangeShape

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #169 on: Mar 25, 2012, 12:04:07 AM »


I know. What I want to say is that, before terraforming a planet, there would be reconnaissance missions, and topographical data collected, etc. Ourselves, we've mapped the Moon, Mars, and so on. Of course, I speak with a real-world point of view ;). I don't mind that the movie is that way ;), it's just a little point.

Movie tie-ins such as novelization and movie books explained it in fairly believable manner. There are 3 reasons given. one is that the derelict collapsed and partially sank into rock. The novelization gives two more from Russ Jorden when he was asked by his wife why hasnt it been found:

"It's blocked off from colony's detector by these mountains, and you know that surveillance satellites are useless in this kind of atmosphere."

"You couldn't pick up any infrared on this part of the planet: new air coming out of the atmosphere processor is too hot"

arachnophilia

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #170 on: Mar 25, 2012, 05:55:40 AM »
they both orbit a ringed gas giant, but i don't know how significant that is, considering literally half of the planets in our own solar system are ringed gas giants.
Two, at best, have rings dense enough to be noted here, and I'm not sold on Uranus yet.

the point is that both gas giants and planetary rings are pretty common.

... the one in alien is simply derelict with no sign of a crash. in the original script, it was safely landed.
For all we know SJ ships regenerate like Borg ships. 

what i mean is, there's no sign of a crash. the landscape is not affected in any way. there's no debris field, no track carved at impact, nothing. it's just there. there's no evidence that the derelict crashed at all, it's simply landed on the planet.

What about 50 years after the asteroid strike?

it'd be darker, and colder, but not geologically different, and our atmosphere wouldn't have a significantly different composition (aside from a lot more dust).

The SJ's have a space ship.  They can replicate the K-T event.  Xenomorphs may be for use when they want a planet (mostly) intact, minus the major life forms.  Although I doubt the Xenomorphs could take over a well armed planet.  I don't really know what the xenomorphs are good for.  Maybe they aren't a weapon and they didn't kill the SJ race.

the point isn't replicating the K-T event -- for that you'd just have to nudge a large enough asteroid. that takes thrust (or perhaps creative use of gravity) and some calculus. the point is doing something that drastically changes the geology of a planet, from old weathered formations, to new volcanic formations all over the planet. basically, they'd have had to have ramped up the tectonic activity on the moon, probably through tidal/gravitational forces -- like moving the moon closer to the gas giant. it's also evidently way colder on LV-426, which indicates that the gas giant itself is further away from its star, or the star is cooler.

pushing an asteroid isn't that hard. pushing the moon is a bigger trick. and pushing saturn's a much bigger trick. ...and cooling off the sun?

I thought we'd been finding rocky planets for the last year.  They are harder to find but I wouldn't assume there are less of them.

it's hard to say, of course, but there's much more gas in the universe than there is rock.

Wait wait, every extra-solar planet we know about is a gas giant? Since when? We've known of plenty of POTENTIAL hard surfaced planets out there. It's just pretty much impossible to verify because we don't have any probes that are out far enough (close enough to other solar systems, that'll be centuries from now.).

i might not be up to date on this. as far as i was aware, the only real way to detect to planets was either wobbling of the star (indirect) or observation of something blocking said star (more direct). either way, the planet has to be massive, and that means gas giant.

Basically you said exactly what i came here to reply too[Like every point].  And exactly to the xenomorphs.  I think the xeno is a really watered down version of the biological weapon.  In a more pure form it would ransack a population in a matter of hours to days.

Hell we don't even know what the ampules truly do yet beyond mutate people in weird and wonderful ways and cause humans to birth a mini cthulhu.

Didn't one of the early plot overviews that fox put up on IMDB and had taken down say they were resource hunters?  totally planetary destruction and resource harvesting really don't go hand in hand.

the original concept was that the alien only lived about 12 hours. speculation was that it was a weapon designed to burn through a population and leave the resources intact.

The ringed gas giant isn't Lv-426, its the planet that it orbits. If I'm not mistaken there were other moons orbiting it as well. The events of Prometheus are most likely on one of those other moons or planetoids.

there are at least three moons of that gas giant, including LV-426. there's some confusion here because the same plate used for the approach of the nostromo is used again for the sky from LV-426. i seriously doubt this movie takes place on one of the other moons, either.

fiveways - It sounds like the Alien we've seen so far is weaker due to mixing with a human host.  The Dogburster Alien isn't worlds different though.  Not as different as it sounds like the Prometheus Xenos will be, which is odd considering a dog is more unlike a human than the SJ's may be.

you're forgetting that the alien has a lot in common with the pilot, too.

The "biological weapon" angle doesn't make much sense.  They can reproduce themselves, but it takes time.

the entire plot of alien takes place within 12 hours. gestation is fast.

 
It's not as fast as manufacturing a robot.  I think you could do more with small swarming robots than the Alien.

the derelict is biological. the engineers are biological engineers. they don't have mechanical technology, they have biomechanical technology. everything is grown.

 
It doesn't take a 9 foot tall monster to kill a man.  A drop of poison on a robot the size of a fly will do.  The Alien works great as a natural organism that can kill effectively when you're unprepared for it, but a squad of  not-ready Colonial Marines was able to wreak havoc on the LV-426 hive.  The LV-426 hive lost its Queen.  Imagine if they had one guy in an enclosed, acid proof mech suit.  The Colonial Marines have the technology.  One guy could stomp bugs all day long.

they're not there to kill. they're there to replace and die. they use the host as raw materials, and their genetic code as a shortcut for adapting to the environment, and live just long enough to spread like a virus. theoretically, that adaptation should include intelligence too. and copying humans, they have opposable thumbs. there's really no reason they couldn't pick up and use human technology, like guns.

The idea of the Predators breeding Aliens for sport is pretty good though.

i always thought that cheapened the whole idea.
« Last Edit: Mar 25, 2012, 06:11:25 AM by arachnophilia »

jeremy_ray

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #171 on: Mar 25, 2012, 06:52:21 AM »
one is that the derelict collapsed and partially sank into rock.

It's stable until Alien, then it collapses?  How did the colonists get the eggs?

"It's blocked off from colony's detector by these mountains, and you know that surveillance satellites are useless in this kind of atmosphere."

I'll buy that you can't see the Derelict from the colony, but the planet would have been mapped and studied before picking a site for the colony.  They found a site for the colony, some kind of surveillance must have worked. 

I believe we've been successful at mapping planets with more challenging atmospheres in our own solar system (Venus, Titan) with our more primitive technology.  Even the bottom of the oceans are mapped IIRC.

 

"You couldn't pick up any infrared on this part of the planet: new air coming out of the atmosphere processor is too hot"[/i]

I'm sure you'd use radar instead of infra-red. 

Was the terraforming plant functional?  Apparently no one noticed a change in atmosphere between Alien and Aliens. 

If the air coming out of it was that hot wouldn't we be seeing heat effects when the drop ship touched down?

the point is that both gas giants and planetary rings are pretty common.

I can see we're just going to go around and around on this.


what i mean is, there's no sign of a crash. the landscape is not affected in any way. there's no debris field, no track carved at impact, nothing. it's just there. there's no evidence that the derelict crashed at all, it's simply landed on the planet.

We haven't seen enough of the landing site to come to that conclusion.  In the Prometheus trailer, it looks like the Derelict crashed in one spot and rolled.  Could have happened in the area in "front" (not the side with the booms sticking out) of the Derelict in Alien.

What about 50 years after the asteroid strike?

it'd be darker, and colder, but not geologically different, and our atmosphere wouldn't have a significantly different composition (aside from a lot more dust).

Yes, darker, less visibility - like LV-426.

the point is doing something that drastically changes the geology of a planet, from old weathered formations, to new volcanic formations all over the planet.

Did we ever see the entirety of LV-426?  It's covered in clouds, I don't think we ever get a good look at the entire planetary surface.  Just a small local area.  we can't conclude the entire planet is an evenly sized rubble field. 


...and cooling off the sun?

We're close to being able to build a solar shield now.  It's being discussed as a way to deal with global warming.    IIRC the European Union outright banned research on solar shields for fear it could actually be made. 





bleau

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #172 on: Mar 25, 2012, 07:14:32 AM »
Quote

I'll buy that you can't see the Derelict from the colony, but the planet would have been mapped and studied before picking a site for the colony.  They found a site for the colony, some kind of surveillance must have worked. 

I believe we've been successful at mapping planets with more challenging atmospheres in our own solar system (Venus, Titan) with our more primitive technology.  Even the bottom of the oceans are mapped IIRC.

Mapped and studied, but not explored. please don't compare earth.

Infected

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #173 on: Mar 25, 2012, 10:03:26 AM »
If Prometheus is rammed into the derelict ship thing then there should be evidence of the ship on LV-426 not only a crashed derelict.
And then in Alien they should know about it so if not then Ridley isnt treating Alien as part of the Prometheus universe or as you might call it cannon?
But Ridley can also play it like this that the company had to knew that the Prometheus was on LV-426 also but didnt inform the crew of the Nostromo and therefor giving a nodd to Alien that they were walking in a trap from the beginning and Ash knew it all along.
Therefor making the company also a very evil company.
But just speculation i really dont think those jockey guys would crash a lot of derelicts around in the galaxy.
Maybe LV-426 was bigger and it broke in half by somekind of explosion etc.

StrangeShape

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #174 on: Mar 25, 2012, 04:33:34 PM »


It's stable until Alien, then it collapses?

After Alien 57 years passed, and it that time the atmosphere was already chaning, so the weather and tectonic movements were going apeshit. The lava spills, weather and shakes embedded it in the rock and caused it to break and collapse

Quote
How did the colonists get the eggs?

Well, they entered the derelict and found the cave

Quote
"It's blocked off from colony's detector by these mountains, and you know that surveillance satellites are useless in this kind of atmosphere."

I'll buy that you can't see the Derelict from the colony, but the planet would have been mapped and studied before picking a site for the colony.  They found a site for the colony, some kind of surveillance must have worked.


And they did. But as explained, there was no heat signature from the derelict and it was basically recognized as part of the rock formations

Youll never gonna have a perfect explanation in a fiction especially when you keep diggin into it and look at semantics, but as I said, its fairly believable and good explanation
« Last Edit: Mar 25, 2012, 04:36:00 PM by StrangeShape »

SM

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #175 on: Mar 26, 2012, 12:56:11 AM »
Quote
the entire plot of alien takes place within 12 hours. gestation is fast.


Fast yes, but the film takes longer than just 12 hours.

SpaceJesus

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #176 on: Mar 26, 2012, 01:07:53 AM »
Quote
the entire plot of alien takes place within 12 hours. gestation is fast.


Fast yes, but the film takes longer than just 12 hours.

From Aliens- Ripley to the company - "...cause just one of those things managed to wipe out my entire crew in less than 24 hours."  So it could be 12 hours but really who's worried what time it is when being hunted by extra terrestial parasites in space. 
« Last Edit: Mar 26, 2012, 01:09:47 AM by Henry Ellis »

SM

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #177 on: Mar 26, 2012, 01:14:36 AM »
Kane was out for around 16 hours.  Chuck on the time before they land, then land, then walk to the Derelict, then the time after the Alien pops out - which is around 5 hours, give or take.

SpaceJesus

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #178 on: Mar 26, 2012, 01:16:08 AM »
Do they say 16 hours in Alien?

“...for she shall come riding a flaming chariot. Ever she shall be the instrument of the return of the Beast, and also its destruction. The Master of two worlds.
And ye shall know her by her number, for it is the number of those who escaped the Great Flood to revive the world, the number of Noah, the number of the resurrected. Her number shall be eight.”
The Revelation of St Morse. 23:80-C


This is cool, where did you find it?  It sounds like Gnostic Apocrypha.
« Last Edit: Mar 26, 2012, 01:21:46 AM by Henry Ellis »

SM

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Re: LV-426?
« Reply #179 on: Mar 26, 2012, 01:31:37 AM »
Made it up.

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Quote
Do they say 16 hours in Alien?

No, but it's a fairly accurate ballpark figure based on the events and times in the film.

 

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