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Author Topic: What went wrong?  (Read 4528 times)

KirklandSignature

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What went wrong?
« on: Dec 29, 2011, 08:23:27 PM »
Not trying to stir up any flaming debates here but I've been trying to figure out what went wrong with the AVP franchise. Was it a bad concept to begin with or was it the choice of directors? I'm torn between saying it was the concept and more or less the director(Paul W.S and Brothers Fraudse). I mean there has to be a way to cater to both fans yet it seems the 1st AVP was for the Alien fans while AVPR was for the Predators.  Simply put, I don't think it would be possible to please both fans since the two are vastly different. I mean at the end of the day, its humans getting butchered by aliens which pretty much sums up the similarities. What was AVP and AVPR lacking that made them fail miserably? What could of made them decent moneymakers without favoring one over the other?


The Runner

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #1 on: Dec 29, 2011, 08:28:39 PM »
Directors and Fox mostly....Fox more to a degree.

The concept was good. But it had to be handled in the right way.


*coughcoughshouldofbeenlikeavp2gamecoughcoughcough*

walker31

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #2 on: Dec 29, 2011, 10:34:31 PM »
For me, It is the lack of respect for the creatures, from the designs to the mannerisms.  I mean, when I'm watching Predator 1, at the end where we first see the Predator decloaking coming out of the water, It freakin looks like a real, other worldly alien that makes you afraid.  Then, when he removes the Biohelmet and we see his face, it looks real, resembling a crustacean/mandalorian warrior.  Even the way his mandible kinda twitches.  Every frame of AvP looks like an actor in a latex rubber suit.  Then when we actually see the face,...umm, did someone forget the Predator's contacts?!  Remember the scene where Celtic and Chopper "fight" the Grid Alien?  My God, that looked like a stop-motion cartoon!  Many other scenes just threw established canon out the freakin window!  Example:   Anytime could jump from tree to tree like he defied gravity.  The end scenes where he is coming to fight Dutch, he leaps from tree to log bridge like he was flying.  Scar looked like a wrestler struggling to walk in his costume when he jumped.  When he helped Lex pull the chain attached to the Queen, he looked like he had the strength of a 12 year old. 
      I would like to say what happened in AvP-R,  but most of the time the bad lighting kept me from seeing the action.  The setting was all wrong, with the crappy kid actors.  It had too much of a Scream feel to it.  Honestly, a few of the Wolf/Alien fight scenes were pretty good. 
     The Brothers offended me from the start, just like RR did with Predators.  They both complained about the their predecessors and promised that their own film would be the ultimate one that would make you forget what came before them, as though they were the saviors of the franchises, taking liberties with sound clips and homages at their will!
      Finally, I never have understood how the Predalien, which I absolutely HATED, grew to full size so FAST!! At the end of Avp, the ship is leaving Earth, and it bursts out and within a few seconds it is full size killing Elder predators, causing the ship to crash back to Earth.  Either the pred ship takes a long time to leave the atmosphere, or it was circling the planet a few times, which wouldnt make sense. 
And yes, I own them, and will watch them occasionally, but the whole time I'm wishing the costumes werent so fake, and the Aliens werent just target practice.

PsyKore

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #3 on: Dec 30, 2011, 03:45:30 AM »
I'd go with what walker31 said. AvP in movie form simply hasn't been treated respectfully. It could be done but there hasn't been the skill and talent needed to pull it off successfully. Both creatures are also prestigious in the sci-fi genre and to put them in trashy movies like these is just disrespectful, really. It'd be like seeing someone you love in a snuff film. :o

meanstreak

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #4 on: Dec 30, 2011, 04:54:10 AM »
The storylines were terrible. Modern day earth just isn't the place for the alien. If they gave ZacK Snyder a chance to make the first AvP comic serie into a movie it would kick ass!

SiL

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #5 on: Dec 30, 2011, 04:57:35 AM »
The last thing AvP needs is f**kin' Zack Snyder.

PHANTOM

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #6 on: Dec 30, 2011, 06:04:56 AM »
Was it a bad concept to begin

Nope, it's an epic concept, no different than Spider Man and Batman ect. Everyone begged for an AVP movie to be made, all it needed was a big budget and one hell of an amazing director behind it and watch the magic happen.

or was it the choice of directors?

Yes and also Fox Entertainment. Both failures combined ruined a wonderful, beautiful, unlimited potential idea.

Simply put, I don't think it would be possible to please both fans since the two are vastly different.

Yes, It's impossible to please all the fans because of the extreme bias they have for their beloved creatures in a nut shell.

You could come up with hundreds of different type of seniors and stories to throw these creatures in and it would still be very epic as long as the bar is set equally at the same level of Alien, Aliens and Predator or of course higher. AVP can be as big, deep and masterful as the Dark Knight.

Fox Entertainment just needs to make a decision whether they are going to let that fantasy become a reality in the future.

Edvin

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #7 on: Dec 30, 2011, 01:16:39 PM »
The last thing AvP needs is f**kin' Zack Snyder.
i dont know, maybe he would make a good job. why wouldnt he?

PHANTOM

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #8 on: Dec 30, 2011, 05:24:15 PM »
He could def do a good job with an AVP film, but he just wouldn't be the best choice.

We need someone like Neill Blomkamp to do an AVP film, now we're talkin 8)

Lost Predator

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 31, 2011, 01:18:48 AM »
I loved AVP up until Lex & Scar team. From there the movie as a whole feel very rushed. I think had the back half been done differently the movie as a whole would be more likeable. i thin I'm in th eminority but I did like the story in AVP. I think the predators needed to have been a little more in tone with the previous movies, but they weren't too bad.

AVPR, well this movie speaks for itself. It sucks and its th eonly Alien or Predator movie I have yet to own and I'm not in any hurry to pick it up. I think had the second AVP movie been directed by, well anybody but the Strause Bros, it would have helped the AVP series overall. But this movie just brought down the whole AVP concept and is probaby the reason we will never see another AVP movie.

AlexVelez

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #10 on: Jan 01, 2012, 07:14:00 PM »
I loved AVP up until Lex & Scar team.

Same. I liked the film, didn't love it though. An R-rating would have helped make the movie grittier as well. The pacing was great up until, like you said, the Lex/Scar team-up. That's when it felt rushed & the film fell apart. Lex should have been running from Scar the whole time. He had a reason to chase & kill her for taking his guns & causing his team to get killed. I also disliked the Alien & Predator designs in general. The Preds were too bulky, & the Aliens were too fleshy.

It got better towards the end with the Queen fight though.

AVP:R was just a disgrace in every sense of the word. That film certainly put the final nail in the coffin for the entire franchise, which is why Fox made a Predator sequel & Alien prequel instead of an AVP3.
« Last Edit: Jan 01, 2012, 07:15:57 PM by AlexVelez »

echobbase79

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #11 on: Jan 01, 2012, 08:50:08 PM »

 
I loved AVP up until Lex & Scar team.

Same. I liked the film, didn't love it though. An R-rating would have helped make the movie grittier as well. The pacing was great up until, like you said, the Lex/Scar team-up. That's when it felt rushed & the film fell apart. Lex should have been running from Scar the whole time. He had a reason to chase & kill her for taking his guns & causing his team to get killed. I also disliked the Alien & Predator designs in general. The Preds were too bulky, & the Aliens were too fleshy.

It got better towards the end with the Queen fight though.

AVP:R was just a disgrace in every sense of the word. That film certainly put the final nail in the coffin for the entire franchise, which is why Fox made a Predator sequel & Alien prequel instead of an AVP3.

But the AvP films kept the franchises going. For better or worse, that's why we got Predators and Prometheus. It comes down to simple commerce really.

SM

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #12 on: Jan 02, 2012, 12:08:12 PM »
What went wrong was Davis.

Edvin

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #13 on: Jan 02, 2012, 12:52:13 PM »
i dont know what people have against the Scar/Lex team-up?
It made full sense in the comics?

Omegazilla

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Re: What went wrong?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 02, 2012, 12:54:26 PM »
I don't have anything particularly against it, but I reckon the film would've held its tone better. The team-up fully reveals AvP's nature of a comic book film.
Predator fans generally despise that choice in the film because they don't think humans and Predators should ever team-up, since the latters hunt the formers for fun.

 

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