Who wants a no-prize? The continuity snafu patch-up megathread

[SM]

I don't believe I said Alien Resurrection outranks other media.  However the fact remains that the Alien Resurrection film and novel both occur 200 years after most of the comic events and not only never mention them - but directly contradict them by saying there's been no contact with Aliens since Fiorina.

[SiL]

No, because the novel version retcons them into Wilks and Billie. Sure the comic may still say "Hicks" and "Newt", but for the purposes of continuity their characters (and Ripley's character) have been changed.

So the stuff that contradicts the other stuff is no longer valid - It has been retconned into the new stuff.

A more direct example would be the Konami Aliens game. It retcons Aliens to have all these weird and wonderful Aliens - Aliens that look like they're made of bubblegum, or lightning, Aliens that roll into balls and run into you, just multi-limbed creatures that spit fireballs at you, infected colonists that explode chestbursters at you.

The movie said it didn't happen, the game said it did. So either we start saying all the weird and wonderful lightning-Aliens are entirely valid within the universe and that Aliens only showed us a grossly shortened version of Ripley saving Newt (missing out on an epic ride on an APC while she was at it, no less), or we say "No, didn't happen, happened like this".

Which is what Resurrection does.

[SM]

Not to mention the hoards of Aliens on the Sulaco and Fiorina in the Alien3 : The Gun or the SNES Alien3 game.

[Xenomrph]

I don't believe I said Alien Resurrection outranks other media.  However the fact remains that the Alien Resurrection film and novel both occur 200 years after most of the comic events and not only never mention them - but directly contradict them by saying there's been no contact with Aliens since Fiorina.

Then you find a way to creatively interpret Alien Resurrection to allow for those other things to exist. It's very simple.

No, because the novel version retcons them into Wilks and Billie. Sure the comic may still say "Hicks" and "Newt", but for the purposes of continuity their characters (and Ripley's character) have been changed.

So the stuff that contradicts the other stuff is no longer valid - It has been retconned into the new stuff.

A more direct example would be the Konami Aliens game. It retcons Aliens to have all these weird and wonderful Aliens - Aliens that look like they're made of bubblegum, or lightning, Aliens that roll into balls and run into you, just multi-limbed creatures that spit fireballs at you, infected colonists that explode chestbursters at you.

The movie said it didn't happen, the game said it did. So either we start saying all the weird and wonderful lightning-Aliens are entirely valid within the universe and that Aliens only showed us a grossly shortened version of Ripley saving Newt (missing out on an epic ride on an APC while she was at it, no less), or we say "No, didn't happen, happened like this".

Which is what Resurrection does.

That's a massive strawman argument, not to mention you're trying to interpret the game literally - you're trying to use a media tie-in that has obvious liberties for the sake of gameplay and differ wildly from both the events of the movie, script, movie novelization, and other sources that reference the events of the movie.
On that point alone, those other sources essentially "undo" the events of the 'Aliens' arcade game, not to mention the game is obviously farcical.

I mean, come on. Even casual fans who don't know anything about anything wouldn't try to fit the arcade game into continuity. Are you being deliberately obtuse just to prove a point or something? Maybe I'm not explaining things properly or something, but it seems that you're just taking the most extreme cases in an effort to undermine the point of the thread.
Other people in the thread have gotten the point of the thread, and I like to think you're smart enough to get the point, too, without resorting to strawman arguments or other fallacies to try and criticize it or something.

If you don't want to contribute to the thread, that's okay; there's other threads for you to contribute to.

[SiL]

Here's a thread I'd been considering doing for a while. Basically, we can try and fix as many of the wacky continuity goofs between myriad sources (movies, games, comics, novels, whatever) as we can.

So let's fix this wacky continuity error; the old arcade games.

It's entirely in keeping with the thread. You want to amend as many issues as possible to allow as much of the EU as possible.

You've said time and time again that all the EU is canon. Then you changed it to all the EU but the crossovers with superheros and the like. So why not the arcade games?

If the other sources "undo" the arcade game, why is Alien Resurrection not allowed to "undo" the entirety of the EU that was written and/or takes place before it?

I realise the purpose of the thread is to try and get as much as possible in, and I'll get around to that, but I just need to lay down that the same rules you'd use to make the EU valid are the ones that are used to make them invalid, which is why outside of this thread most people don't use the EU as a source of information.

[Xenomrph]

If the other sources "undo" the arcade game, why is Alien Resurrection not allowed to "undo" the entirety of the EU that was written and/or takes place before it?

I realise the purpose of the thread is to try and get as much as possible in

You just answered your own question.

I just need to lay down that the same rules you'd use to make the EU valid are the ones that are used to make them invalid

This thread requires some basic common sense for it to "work".
Basic common sense like:
- no one in their right mind would try to fit the old 'Aliens' or 'Alien3' arcade games into continuity. I mean, I guess we could try, I don't see the problem with doing so, but it wouldn't make much sense from a "common sense" standpoint.
- no one in their right mind would toss out 90% of the EU just because of 2 lines in 'Alien Resurrection' if they're trying to fit as much into continuity as possible.

It'd be like trying to fit the old 'Alien' Atari 2600 game into continuity. The game is a Pac-Man clone, and basic common sense says you're not meant to fit it into the continuity.
Compare it to, say, the arcade side-scroller "AvP" game, which actually has original characters and a plot, and is something that could be fit into the continuity.

I guess my point is that the thread is taking continuity goofs on a case-by-case basis, so hard-and-fast "rules" may not be the best way to look at it. Here's an example: the 'Aliens' script and novelization talked about "albino drones" that were present near the Queen when Ripley enters the Queen's chamber and ultimately torches the eggs. Obviously, those things weren't present in the movie. Continuity error? Sure. Which source is "right"? That's up to the individual I guess - the movie makes it apparent that there weren't albino drones present (or at least we didn't see any), but albino drones themselves may still exist. In fact, the "Aliens: Colonial Marines" game is rumored to actually feature them. I don't know that I'd say it would "retcon" them into existence in 'Aliens' necessarily, but it would certainly establish their existence at all.
Compare this to the LV-426 size issue - the movie says one thing, another source says something else, and a third source says something else entirely. Which one is "right"? Well two of the numbers don't make scientific sense and create other continuity issues, while one of the numbers fixes the problem entirely. Basic common sense tells you which number to pick if you're trying to solve basic continuity issues.

Does that make sense? I keep feeling like I'm not explaining things properly and that's why you get confused, I dunno.
I suppose my ultimate point is "don't be retarded".

outside of this thread most people don't use the EU as a source of information

In my experience with AvP fans (casual or die-hard) outside of this forum, I've found this to be very false.
In fact, even on this forum I've seen plenty of people mention things from the EU in a multitude of threads. Generally not to the degree that I do, but it certainly happens quite a bit. A whole lot more often than it should if "most people" don't consider it a source of information, at least.
But that's neither here nor there. I'm just speaking from my own experience

[Layorz]

End of the day is, most people will take what they consider canon regardless of what others say. I personally would love to have seen avp tie in with alien films, but then i dont want avpr to have anything to do with the alien franchise. I would love to see AvP2 the pc game tie in with continuity, but I wouldnt want the arcade games to be touched. People have their own opinions and so almost no one will agree with you on whats to be considered canon and what isnt. Even if you want to take every last thing as canon and just ignore the arcade games that are utterly rediculous, not everyone is going to think the same way.

[Xenomrph]

Well, yeah. That's sort of the point I've made in most "canon" debates I've been involved in on this board.

I've just seen people say "aw man there's all these continuity errors!" so I figured, "why not make a thread where we can try and fix them?"