All Star Wars

[PredBabe]

Spoiler

Not sure it's worth the effort if they want to have a simple conversation with someone. Isn't the 'Forcetime' strenuous for those who use it? Hence why Luke died afterwards.

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Spoiler

Force time and projection are two different things. Force time seems to be effortless as far as we see here.

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Hmm I didn't realize they were that different.

How I saw it:

Spoiler

Snoke connected Rey and Kylo so naturally it is effortless in their case. There's that scene though, where it's raining on the island, and Kylo wipes the water from his face after another conversation with Rey. It's almost like Snoke puts in just enough effort and Kylo's curiosity- and maybe own use of the Force- helps enhance each conversation with Rey. Maybe it's all the same thing but different strenth in Force used?

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[SM]

I'm not sure they are that different.

Spoiler

Couldn't Luke see Ren during one of the conversations he was having with Rey?

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[PredBabe]

That's true too!

That was during the last Forcetime too where the maximum effort was probably being used from everyone involved.

Spoiler

That scene was like a boyfriend sneaking into his girlfriend's window only to have her dad walk in on them canoodling.

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[SM]

Spoiler

Dunno if Snoke was involved in that or it was Rey and Ren's combined power.  I thought maybe Snoke was bragging about hooking them up on Forcetime.  Makes one wonder if Ren or Snoke could tell where Luke was - and whether they could send a Star Destroyer to paste the planet.

I'm guessing not.

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[Highland]

Spoiler

If they are not different, Ren wouldnt have fallen for the trick at the end.

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[SiL]

Spoiler

Except at the end there was no "tell" to the trick. When Force timing, Kylo knew he was standing on a spaceship -- he clearly couldn't have been on the island with Rey, so it was a trick. With Luke, there was nothing to indicate that Luke wasn't there until the last few moments. Then he worked it out.

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[Paranoid Android]

Spoiler

The two are the same thing.
When it happened to Kylo Ren and Rey, Rey fell for it and shot a wall, thinking Kylo Ren was there. Only after Kylo gets "shot" and realizes nothing happened does he start figuring out it's some type of Force connection.

As for Snoke connecting them "naturally", you never actually see him do it and Kylo Ren's own response when suspecting that Rey might be doing it is rejecting the idea stating that the effort would kill her.

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[kwisatz]

I see what you're saying - but in Luke's case it wasn't a matter of midiclorian deficiency; it was simply a matter of belief.

So basically nothing is really his fault.

Why?  Anakin had a choice between selflessness and selfishness and chose the latter.

I guess somewhere around that 'choice' region is where my problem with the midichlorian concept is situated. Its really more of a personal issue with the whole thing, i think.

I just have problems to attribute the (complete) ability of decision making to an individual that we are lead to believe is simultaneously filled to the brim with these other force sensitive beings, each with their own will and attitude towards the Force, probably sentient and therefore with their own "agenda".

For all we know a highly Force sensitive being could therefore be only little more than this:




I see a lot of people complaining about the lack of psychological motivation for Anakin to finally turn in EPIII (slaughtering hundreds of children to save pregnant Padme). But thats only true from an OT perspective. If he is kinda possesed by this other beings then he was doomed from the start anyway. Not sure him equally quick snapping out of it in ROTJ makes much sense then, but i guess you can just wittness the direct clash between the concepts here...

For me in the OT there was this direct link between your feelings and mindset to the "charactersitics" of the Force. It starts with your own fear and from there a direct path leads into the Dark Side. Theres sort of a direct interaction between your psychic constitution and the Force in its various manifestations.

The PT now tells me theres another entity (entities) to be taken into consideration. Suppose your fear is not very strong but you have sort of a lot of "bad" midichlorians. They will probably intensify it and you will turn out another Vader eventually. But the total outcome then says little about you as a person. On the other side you could have a truly evil self, but a lot of midichlorians that tend to the Light. You eventually turn out good anyway despite your ugly personality.

Thats a complete different approach for me, everything is more determined and less choice, more "crude matter" and less "Luminous beings are we". I'm just not very interested in this take thats all.

[whiterabbit]

For some reason I don't think totalitarian dictators are tooled with very often. So Poe's phone gag may have been the first guy to use it on a vampire in the star wars universe.

Also using the force does put strain on the body. The force is a "form" of energy and although it is needed to keep us them alive the more of it you let flow through, the more strain you put on your body.

Spoiler

Doing a force projection or doppelganger technique across vast distances is a god like attribute. I don't see how that is different from a regular dude lifting something that is way too heavy. As an analogy it's similar to electricity. When working with electronics you can work bare hands with 5 and 12 volts. Get up to 30 volts and you start to feel a charge. Grab normal 120 volts US and buzzz. It's probably the same deal with the force.

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[D88M]

I watched it yesterday, is not a great movie, the previous one while being a shameless remake was better, thought this one is also kinda a remake.

-Is too long for at least half an hour.
-Lots of forced, unfunny stupid mcu like disney jokes for little kids.
-Finn and Rose should have died, no point to neither character or subplot.
-No need for Benicio Del Toro in such a little part.
-Music is forgettable.
-Too formulaic, the action with the ships is getting stale and boring, and there is too much action.
-No rhythm: BR2049 was longer, slower, and it did not felt as long and  as this one, it drags.

The other things are ok i guess. I felt like no character had really an arc, Driver does fine but not great as an actor, and the movie at the same time was trying to offer something new while giving lots of fanservice, overall was a little disappointing given that the previous movie set this one to be better than what it was.

[SM]

Poe had a not-at-all-subtle arc.  Finn as well.

Spoiler

Rey and Ren had changed their stance from TFA to the end of this too.

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And the soundtrack was an improvement on TFA.

[Paranoid Android]

Poe had a not-at-all-subtle arc.  Finn as well.

What was Finn's arc?

[SM]

Spoiler

At the start he was all about Rey, and would rather not be involved with the Resistance, much the same as he was in TFA.  By the end he was trying to destroy the big cannon in a kamikaze run to help them.

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[Paranoid Android]

Spoiler

At the start he was all about Rey, much the same as he was in TFA.  By the end he was trying to destroy the big cannon in a kamikaze run to help the Resistance.

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Spoiler

But he left the Resistance ship along with Rose in an attempt to help the Resistance. Everything he did in the film was an attempt to help them. His "sacrifice" was the one time they didn't want his help. Finn was all about Rey for like 2 minutes in the film, which is when he woke up and tried to get into an escape pod.

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[SM]

He's changed at the end from how he was at the start.  I didn't say it was particularly deep.