keep an eye over here (http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/comment/23290#Comment_23290) for the new viral video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOOJl5lWNfM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOOJl5lWNfM#)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fv3Vd3.jpg&hash=5d4e8bdceffdf65ef6254760420de334906f668c)
Hoooo-lyyyyyy shit.
heheh, yeah bring it on david8
Nice! What's up with the origami skulls behind David? :D
:o
I think David just became my new favourite character.
"I can carry out directives that my human counterparts might find distressing.....or immoral" :laugh: :'( :-* :-\ :-X :-[ :P :P ::) ::) ???
Fu€king brilliant
This is such an awesome video. Anybody figured out those roscache paintings that kept flashing up?
There's one clip that displays David spinning, very similar to the Replicants in Blade Runner...
David can perform "unethical" work. Interesting.
Quote from: shamash on Apr 17, 2012, 09:33:18 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fv3Vd3.jpg&hash=5d4e8bdceffdf65ef6254760420de334906f668c)
lol, i see skulls in the background.
This was awesome! David is going to be an amazing character!
Wow, that was amazing. The viral marketing has been excellent so far!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FG1rpk.jpg&hash=99f0f9863c3e2886eaf88c35c0a800c57d033b41)
Credit to viscal @ www.prometheusforum.net (http://www.prometheusforum.net)
Quote from: shamash on Apr 17, 2012, 12:47:56 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FG1rpk.jpg&hash=99f0f9863c3e2886eaf88c35c0a800c57d033b41)
Credit to viscal @ www.prometheusforum.net (http://www.prometheusforum.net)
Oh man, this is getting better and better!
Hang about... he thinks about robots!? Oh shit, he's bolted. We are all doomed! ;)
Fight for robots rights, before they do.
where can i order one?
Amazing! Love the music too!
Okay that was f**king great.
Can somebody stop the video right at "1:09" and tell me that "hieroglyphic" (sorry, I don't know how to name that "painting or just drawing) doesn't resemble Giger'salien mural on the roof of the temple?
Original article: http://mashable.com/2012/04/17/prometheus-david-ad/ (http://mashable.com/2012/04/17/prometheus-david-ad/)
QuoteFox is also putting a full-page advertisement for David in The Wall Street Journal.
I just realized i didn't get a credit on the news part for finding it first :(
A great video. :)
100% pure awesome! Love the viral campaign for this movie so far.
That was fantastic. Gave me chills. If anyone could have possibly doubted Fassbender in this before, there's no way they can now.
Wow! Guys, if there was ever any doubt, Prometheus is going to be huge.
Quote from: tmjhur on Apr 17, 2012, 11:33:11 AM
"I can carry out directives that my human counterparts might find distressing.....or immoral" :laugh: :'( :-* :-\ :-X :-[ :P :P ::) ::) ???
Yeah, I found that statement to be a bit too FRIGGIN' OBVIOUS. Not sure why the writer(s) decided to include that remark. They might as well have given David a handlebar moustache so he could twirl one of the ends, while he said the line. While this doesn't necessarily mean that Fassbender's David will do something "unethical" or immoral, in the film...the inclusion of this statement equates to hitting the viewer over the head with a mallet.
Not very subtle.Furthermore, this viral video is based upon the conceit that this is an actual advertisement for the David 8 line of androids. Why exactly would Weyland let it's customer's (and the world) know that their androids could potentially perform unethical and potentially illegal acts...even if it were true. I can't see how that would benefit the Weyland Corp. If anything, it opens up the door for catastrophic legal liability.
Finally, it seems a bit puzzling and inconsistent, that a fully sentient, conscious and self-aware android wouldn't also experience emotional states. In the video, David makes it clear that while he can "understand" emotion, he doesn't
feel emotion. We also see him crying. So are we to assume that this is just a "programmed" reaction to mimic human behavior, so as to make him appear empathetic to humans?
Also, at the very end of the video, there appears to be a contradiction. The Weyland acronym for these androids is "TIPE", standing for: Technological, Intellectual, Physical,
Emotional
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 17, 2012, 02:27:54 PM
Also, at the very end of the video, there appears to be a contradiction. The Weyland acronym for these androids is "TIPE", standing for: Technological, Intellectual, Physical, Emotional
Him appearing/reacting emotional doesn't necesserly mean that he does
feel emotions.
I think you are perfectly right with this:
QuoteSo are we to assume that this is just a "programmed" reaction to mimic human behavior, so as to make him appear empathetic to humans?
But I guess this concept will evolve and be further dealt with in the movie.
Of course it's on the nose, Deut. It's a viral video.
He seems like a cross between Ash and Bishop. Great.
Thanks for the credit ikarop :)
Quote from: LarsVader on Apr 17, 2012, 02:34:48 PM
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 17, 2012, 02:27:54 PM
Also, at the very end of the video, there appears to be a contradiction. The Weyland acronym for these androids is "TIPE", standing for: Technological, Intellectual, Physical, Emotional
Him appearing/reacting emotional doesn't necesserly mean that he does feel emotions.
I think you are perfectly right with this:
QuoteSo are we to assume that this is just a "programmed" reaction to mimic human behavior, so as to make him appear empathetic to humans?
But I guess this concept will evolve and be further dealt with in the movie.
Yep, that's what I got from it.
And I'm not expecting David to turn evil at any point in the film. Maybe he'll do some immoral things, accidentally get a person killed, but I don't see him pulling an Ash.
damnit, fassbender is going to deliver some iconic acting in this movie.
the last time i had so much fun just watching an actor play his role was when i saw Heath Ledger as the Joker.
After this incredible video I'm actually more inclined to believe that we see a couple Davids in the movie, like some have been suggesting. Not completely sure that happens yet, but something about that shot of the two Davids playing chess gave me a feeling that there's a lot of foreshadowing going on aside from them being programmed to perform immoral acts. The video also reveals that David can't stand war or unnecessary acts of violence. In one interview Fassbender said each David bot could develop its own personality.
Quote from: Malakak on Apr 17, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
After this incredible video I'm actually more inclined to believe that we see a couple Davids in the movie, like some have been suggesting. Not completely sure that happens yet, but something about that shot of the two Davids playing chess gave me a feeling that there's a lot of foreshadowing going on aside from them being programmed to perform immoral acts. The video also reveals that David can't stand war or unnecessary acts of violence. In one interview Fassbender said each David bot could develop its own personality.
Ohhh, now that could be
very interesting to see. Almost like the movie
Moon, I'm thinking.
love it!! :o :o
the skulls in the back remind me of (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNzggM.jpg&hash=00230dac63f79646d5215f0ef4300113b1177b11)
by Matthew Day Jackson
Prt Sc -----> new sig :)
Love this video - too bad you can't really make out the book titles on the shelves behind him.
That huge mural/picture he's seen looking at.... do you think it represents buildings/WY headquarters, electronic circuitry or something else entirely?
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 17, 2012, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: Malakak on Apr 17, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
After this incredible video I'm actually more inclined to believe that we see a couple Davids in the movie, like some have been suggesting. Not completely sure that happens yet, but something about that shot of the two Davids playing chess gave me a feeling that there's a lot of foreshadowing going on aside from them being programmed to perform immoral acts. The video also reveals that David can't stand war or unnecessary acts of violence. In one interview Fassbender said each David bot could develop its own personality.
Ohhh, now that could be very interesting to see. Almost like the movie Moon, I'm thinking.
That was a great movie :) Not really sure about that theory though, because what we thought was a pic of two Davids, most likely isn't. I'm thinking if that happens Weyland has one programmed to be more defensive as a bodyguard, when he shows up-- however he does. Whereas the crew has the more humanistic one who's been wandering the ship for 2.5 years and wondering about the universe while everyone was in cryo.
...Those David8s always WERE a bit twitchy...
I guess there are plenty of subliminal messages inserted in the video. In the chess table, for instance, the black pieces are well advanced towards the white pieces (the dark side is winning...). We can see also David manipulating little humans in the painting scene. Anyone catch anything else?
Funny thing about the painting scene... because of the way the figure looks, the jacket etc., I was thinking it was a figure of T.E Lawrence and in a symbolic sense, David could be applying paint to himself -> developing/learning/evolving.
Quote from: LarsVader on Apr 17, 2012, 02:34:48 PM
Him appearing/reacting emotional doesn't necesserly mean that he does feel emotions.
I always found this (the unemotional android) to be a completely ridiculous "trope" that has been sustained in the sci-fi genre. We are expected to believe that basically every characteristic of human consciousness is realized in these futuristic, advanced Artificial Intelligences:
Cognition
Self-awareness
Self-reflection
Introspection
Intentionality
Perceptual recognition and awareness that other beings are also individual, conscious agents
Empathy
Yet, for no good reason (except that it helps the narrative), A.I. / androids in sci-fi are generally denied the ability to experience internal emotional states. Why? My guess is that this is the easiest and simpliest way for sci-fi writers to represent a clear distinction between the android character and the human character. It is a simplistic literary crutch to signify the "Other".
However, an A.I. intelligence that features all the attributes (see list above) of human consciousness, IMHO would also be expected to "feel" and perceive different internal emotional states. The denial of emotion is especially problematic when the A.I. clearly exhibits both empathy and the recognition of consciousness in others.
Of course, the simple resolution to this question is to sweep the issue under the proverbial rug, with the explanation that the A.I. programming somehow prevents or precludes emotional states. Another similar argument is that the A.I. is constrained by some hypothetical emotional inhibitor. Yet, IMHO, this is an entirely unsatisfactory resolution. In some sense, a fully conscious A.I. has to operate beyond (or transcend) any deterministic "program"...otherwise it couldn't be considered truly conscious.
"I can carry out directives that my human counterparts might find distressing or unethical."
^Nice bit of foreshadowing there!
Quote from: Despicable Dugong on Apr 17, 2012, 03:42:54 PM
"I can carry out directives that my human counterparts might find distressing or unethical."
^Nice bit of foreshadowing there!
Yep. Makes sense, too, with Bishop's crawl through the tunnel in
Aliens when no one else wanted to do it.
Just fantastic.
The implications of David being one of the first true artificial persons, and what this means with the Prometheus and its' fateful encounter, mmm the metaphysical possibilities are vast. What is David going to think when things start to go down? About mankind, or the jockeys, or himself? About life, creation, what any of it means?
I do agree the "unethical" comment seemed a little ham-fisted, but I also think that even in this version of the near-future, people could be living in an entirely different world. There may be things that corporations need to do that are unethical, but necessary, similar to giving military orders or having to make decisions that could result the death of others, and these could be more acceptable under the eyes of the public... perhaps with new responsibilities like space-travel and colonization.
Fantastic. COME ON JUNE, BABAAAY!
Quote from: Despicable Dugong on Apr 17, 2012, 03:42:54 PM
"I can carry out directives that my human counterparts might find distressing or unethical."
^Nice bit of foreshadowing there!
...or misdirection...
Anyone else get a slight HAL9000-vibe?
Quote from: Glaive on Apr 17, 2012, 03:46:20 PM
Quote from: Despicable Dugong on Apr 17, 2012, 03:42:54 PM
"I can carry out directives that my human counterparts might find distressing or unethical."
^Nice bit of foreshadowing there!
...or misdirection...
Anyone else get a slight HAL9000-vibe?
yes
this video - a thousand times more creepy than the actual trailer.
Open the pod bay doors please David! ;D
Quote from: Despicable Dugong on Apr 17, 2012, 03:42:54 PM
"I can carry out directives that my human counterparts might find distressing or unethical."
^Nice bit of foreshadowing there!
He will help to all people during the whole film.. only to turn to a bad motherfu*ker in the last few scenes, causing total mayhem. Why not.
http://czarnyma.tumblr.com/post/21270246113/helens78-rainboxxx-alternative (http://czarnyma.tumblr.com/post/21270246113/helens78-rainboxxx-alternative)
oh my, oh my! :o
What I find strange is the reference in the advertisements to David as being a "Robot" rather than a "Synthetic" or "Android" as described elsewhere in canon. Yes, Parker refers to Ash as a "God damn robot", but still. Figured they'd advertise it as Android.
Also a static appearance across a line of robots seems contradictory to Ridleys' original concept which had a synthetic like Ash who was not exactly a "model" in the sense that the public could recognize him as an android. Realize there is only 30 years time between Prometheus and Alien and it is even stranger.
White lilies are traditionally associated with funereal rites. Interesting to see David8 contemplating and smelling them after he talk about being able to do distressing or unethical things! ;D
No one have still noticed what might be a relationship between those quick four images in this video and the shape shifting mural in the jockey's temple?, I think the third image is based on the mural when It shows that alien, and I the first one might resemble a jockey suit. Notice there's also a work before each of these pics
The quick images shown to David are from the Rorschach test.
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 17, 2012, 04:49:19 PM
The quick images shown to David are from the Rorschach test.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test#The_ten_inkblots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test#The_ten_inkblots)
I think it is inspired by the test, but the images are different & are some kind of plot thing..
Quote from: Zenzucht on Apr 17, 2012, 04:58:14 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 17, 2012, 04:49:19 PM
The quick images shown to David are from the Rorschach test.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test#The_ten_inkblots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test#The_ten_inkblots)
I think it is inspired by the test, but the images are different & are some kind of plot thing..
the third one gotta be the alien showed in the mural on the roof, in the jockeys temple, and I think the first one resembles a jockey suit. So what could be the other two?
do you guys remeber the full trailer when someone asks David: "please tell me you can read them". Does this something to do with "that"?
The first image is labeled SLIDE | ROR 77
ROR(SHACH)?
I love how when he asks david what does he think about and david gazes away for a moment before looking forward again to answer.
Im more interested in the big design that you see after the close up shot of him tapping the pen. Anyone got a large sized image of it?
Quote from: Despicable Dugong on Apr 17, 2012, 05:05:13 PM
Im more interested in the big design that you see after the close up shot of him tapping the pen. Anyone got a large sized image of it?
http://www.projectprometheus.com/ (http://www.projectprometheus.com/)
https://www.weylandindustries.com/site/david/ (https://www.weylandindustries.com/site/david/)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flatino-review.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2FPrometheus_LatinoReview.jpg&hash=f89da6c6a64fec4045057ccd6b00c543a77fd25e)
Edit: Mmmh that's odd they just removed the page. It was a login page and it had a text box for the code. The code says "confidence" btw.
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 17, 2012, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: Despicable Dugong on Apr 17, 2012, 05:05:13 PM
Im more interested in the big design that you see after the close up shot of him tapping the pen. Anyone got a large sized image of it?
Quote from: Eva on Apr 17, 2012, 03:22:02 PM
Prt Sc -----> new sig :)
That huge mural/picture he's seen looking at.... do you think it represents buildings/WY headquarters, electronic circuitry or something else entirely?
is a city plan. you can see at the bottom a kind of Vatican buildings
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.travelpod.com%2Fusers%2Fmarkditrel%2F1.1272996591.a-model-of-the-vatican-city-state.jpg&hash=2a70cc05ceff217c60da514ca7b67d3084c0d96c)
and theres a mix with Washington Capitol Mall at the north.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spur.org%2Ffiles%2Fu2%2F03McMillan_0.jpg&hash=dcd8b351a823ebb80bda3000edb9362bf554abfd)
remeber after building worlds, they have to build cities. maybe a Hadleys Hope prototype? dont think so, it looks more a monumental model.
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 17, 2012, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: LarsVader on Apr 17, 2012, 02:34:48 PM
Him appearing/reacting emotional doesn't necesserly mean that he does feel emotions.
Of course, the simple resolution to this question is to sweep the issue under the proverbial rug, with the explanation that the A.I. programming somehow prevents or precludes emotional states. Another similar argument is that the A.I. is constrained by some hypothetical emotional inhibitor. Yet, IMHO, this is an entirely unsatisfactory resolution. In some sense, a fully conscious A.I. has to operate beyond (or transcend) any deterministic "program"...otherwise it couldn't be considered truly conscious.
good statement. this and the unethical thing not being comercially profitable for WY. I wonder who came first David or Ash, since Nostromo was an old ship and Prometheus presumably has everything at ultimate tech. Maybe Ash evolved as a secret proyect for unethical actions ;)
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 17, 2012, 04:49:19 PM
The quick images shown to David are from the Rorschach test.
Rorschach test?
...or pre-cursur to the Voight-Kampff test?
maybe it's the headquarter of weyland corp/industries in san francisco?
Anyone got the code thing working? The page freezes for me. Firefox doesn't like it apparently.
Quote from: ikarop on Apr 17, 2012, 05:31:05 PM
Anyone got the code thing working? The page freezes for me. Firefox doesn't like it apparently.
opera either.
but i think the site is still under construction & maybe the traffic is currently too high.
It has something to do with a Java script. Someone probably messed up.
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 17, 2012, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: LarsVader on Apr 17, 2012, 02:34:48 PM
Him appearing/reacting emotional doesn't necesserly mean that he does feel emotions.
I always found this (the unemotional android) to be a completely ridiculous "trope" that has been sustained in the sci-fi genre. We are expected to believe that basically every characteristic of human consciousness is realized in these futuristic, advanced Artificial Intelligences:
Cognition
Self-awareness
Self-reflection
Introspection
Intentionality
Perceptual recognition and awareness that other beings are also individual, conscious agents
Empathy
Yet, for no good reason (except that it helps the narrative), A.I. / androids in sci-fi are generally denied the ability to experience internal emotional states. Why? My guess is that this is the easiest and simpliest way for sci-fi writers to represent a clear distinction between the android character and the human character. It is a simplistic literary crutch to signify the "Other".
However, an A.I. intelligence that features all the attributes (see list above) of human consciousness, IMHO would also be expected to "feel" and perceive different internal emotional states. The denial of emotion is especially problematic when the A.I. clearly exhibits both empathy and the recognition of consciousness in others.
Of course, the simple resolution to this question is to sweep the issue under the proverbial rug, with the explanation that the A.I. programming somehow prevents or precludes emotional states. Another similar argument is that the A.I. is constrained by some hypothetical emotional inhibitor. Yet, IMHO, this is an entirely unsatisfactory resolution. In some sense, a fully conscious A.I. has to operate beyond (or transcend) any deterministic "program"...otherwise it couldn't be considered truly conscious.
To me, it seems that emotions are something that humans had to learn how to
control properly to operate at the most efficient levels and achieve the greatest scientific discoveries. The very nature of science demands the utmost in unbiased, logical observations and records. Emotions are, naturally, detrimental to this process, but there are lots of other things they provide which help science in many ways, least of which being the understanding that comes from dealing with said emotions.
It stands to reason that emotions could be eliminated entirely if these other factors were (or even could be) taken into account. But you would have to either discern or guess at what unquantifiable attributes you could be sacrificing if you created a being with no emotional response. Creativity, I'm sure, would suffer, but that's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
David seems simply programmed to understand, display, and relate to emotions, but this is Boolean algebra, which we've seen referenced several times in the viral videos. The fact that he doesn't "feel" them means to me that they aren't generated internally. They are simply cause and effect, exterior reactions to relate to humans, but whether or not this makes them truly "artificial" is getting in to Turing territory.
From an outside perspective, David's emotions could pass all of the mental tests that make them "real."
The page is working here: https://www.weylandindustries.com/site/davidreveal (https://www.weylandindustries.com/site/davidreveal)
It still is a "Rorsharch" test. Instead of a randomized image formed by the blotting of ink spatter, it is a digitized version of a bilaterly symmetric random image.
Holy freaking shit.
Quote from: Kol on Apr 17, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
http://czarnyma.tumblr.com/post/21270246113/helens78-rainboxxx-alternative (http://czarnyma.tumblr.com/post/21270246113/helens78-rainboxxx-alternative)
oh my, oh my! :o
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F27.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m2mxqylNxc1r3a1rwo1_1280.jpg&hash=0bd40fb5f53c6acfc00efc8320277d8b88b3fab8)
Quote from: RagingDragon on Apr 17, 2012, 05:35:11 PM
David seems simply programmed to understand, display, and relate to emotions, but this is Boolean algebra, which we've seen referenced several times in the viral videos. The fact that he doesn't "feel" them means to me that they aren't generated internally. They are simply cause and effect, exterior reactions to relate to humans, but whether or not this makes them truly "artificial" is getting in to Turing territory.
From an outside perspective, David's emotions could pass all of the mental tests that make them "real."
This also brings up John Searle's "Chinese Room" argument. I think this all distills down to two mutually exclusive conclusions. Either David is an intelligent, fully conscious (and self-conscious) being, with all the attributes of human consciousness...or he is a "Philosophical Zombie". The first implies strong (full) A.I., whereas the second implies weak A.I.
I would argue that if it is the first, then David should possess the capacity for internal emotional states, due to his true consciousness, and especially due to the combination of a) empathy with b) the awareness of consciousness in others.
Don't you think that David could turn out bad just like Ash from Alien? remember what Bishop said on Aliens the earlier models were twitchy , and Prometheus is supposedly set before Alien so you know...
I never heard the 'immoral' word spoken, after 3 viewings. This piece to me, is way more impactful the the original (but still brilliant) Ted Talk.
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 17, 2012, 06:00:46 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Apr 17, 2012, 05:35:11 PM
David seems simply programmed to understand, display, and relate to emotions, but this is Boolean algebra, which we've seen referenced several times in the viral videos. The fact that he doesn't "feel" them means to me that they aren't generated internally. They are simply cause and effect, exterior reactions to relate to humans, but whether or not this makes them truly "artificial" is getting in to Turing territory.
From an outside perspective, David's emotions could pass all of the mental tests that make them "real."
This also brings up John Searle's "Chinese Room" argument. I think this all distills down to two mutually exclusive conclusions. Either David is an intelligent, fully conscious (and self-conscious) being, with all the attributes of human consciousness...or he is a "Philosophical Zombie". The first implies strong (full) A.I., whereas the second implies weak A.I.
I would argue that if it is the first, then David should possess the capacity for internal emotional states, due to his true consciousness, and especially due to the combination of a) empathy with b) the awareness of consciousness in others.
hi Deuterium. (and anyone else interested in A.I)
im not sure which country youre from but you might want to watch Horizon, the hunt for A.I on bbci player if you haven't seen it already, the robots near the end that develop their own language to communicate and teach each other things are awesome.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01fmbvb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01fmbvb)
thanks
rich
That David robot got BAD written all over his face.
I think he is gonna be the badass of 2012
Quote from: RICH-ENGLAND on Apr 17, 2012, 06:17:08 PM
hi Deuterium. (and anyone else interested in A.I)
im not sure which country youre from but you might want to watch Horizon, the hunt for A.I on bbci player if you haven't seen it already, the robots near the end that develop their own language to communicate and teach each other things are awesome.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01fmbvb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01fmbvb)
thanks
rich
Thanks for the heads-up, Rich. I can't access the BBCi player, here in the USA...and, unfortunately, "Horizon" is not a program currently available on BBC America. So, I may have have to explore alternative routes...that some of my human counterparts might find distressful, or unethical.
:P ;) ;D
right on, boss.
http://openproxy.co.uk/ (http://openproxy.co.uk/)
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Apr 17, 2012, 06:28:01 PM
right on, boss.
http://openproxy.co.uk/ (http://openproxy.co.uk/)
Sweet! Now I won't have to implement my Special Order 936.
Saw this earlier. I guess this is the TV version?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Es_JimQFXw#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Es_JimQFXw#ws)
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 17, 2012, 06:25:49 PM
Quote from: RICH-ENGLAND on Apr 17, 2012, 06:17:08 PM
hi Deuterium. (and anyone else interested in A.I)
im not sure which country youre from but you might want to watch Horizon, the hunt for A.I on bbci player if you haven't seen it already, the robots near the end that develop their own language to communicate and teach each other things are awesome.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01fmbvb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01fmbvb)
thanks
rich
Thanks for the heads-up, Rich. I can't access the BBCi player, here in the USA...and, unfortunately, "Horizon" is not a program currently available on BBC America. So, I may have have to explore alternative routes...that some people might find distressful, or unethical. :P ;) ;D
its got some great stuff on it, youll like it, it features searles chinese room, the main hypothesis for the robots at the end is the guy that made them figures that a machine neads a human style body to develop real a.i so it becomes aware of itself.
here is a nice "unethical" link for you my friend ;)
http://www.free-TV-video-online.me/internet/horizon/season_50.html (http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/internet/horizon/season_50.html)
thanks
rich
Quote from: RICH-ENGLAND on Apr 17, 2012, 06:34:44 PM
its got some great stuff on it, youll like it, it features searles chinese room, the main hypothesis for the robots at the end is the guy that made them figures that a machine neads a human style body to develop real a.i so it becomes aware of itself.
here is a nice "unethical" link for you my friend ;)
http://www.free-TV-video-online.me/internet/horizon/season_50.html (http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/internet/horizon/season_50.html)
thanks
rich
Thanks, Rich. Now I recognize it..especially after seeing it is on it's 50th season. This show (Horizon) was the inspiration for the American PBS program "Nova". Indeed, I think sometimes now there may be a bit of cross pollination...where Nova adapts a Horizon episode, and vice versa.
Good viral ad.
They did another update to the official site. Added plenty of new images.
https://www.weylandindustries.com/ (https://www.weylandindustries.com/)
(https://www.weylandindustries.com/img/home/entry_01_02.jpg)
(https://www.weylandindustries.com/img/home/entry_01_03.jpg)
(https://www.weylandindustries.com/img/home/entry_03_02.jpg)
(https://www.weylandindustries.com/img/home/entry_04_01.jpg)
(https://www.weylandindustries.com/img/home/entry_04_03.jpg)
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 17, 2012, 02:27:54 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Apr 17, 2012, 11:33:11 AM
"I can carry out directives that my human counterparts might find distressing.....or immoral" :laugh: :'( :-* :-\ :-X :-[ :P :P ::) ::) ???
Yeah, I found that statement to be a bit too FRIGGIN' OBVIOUS. Not sure why the writer(s) decided to include that remark. They might as well have given David a handlebar moustache so he could twirl one of the ends, while he said the line. While this doesn't necessarily mean that Fassbender's David will do something "unethical" or immoral, in the film...the inclusion of this statement equates to hitting the viewer over the head with a mallet. Not very subtle.
Eh. I think it's effective foreshadowing. Of course to someone like you and me who are actively discussing the film, and its potential plot developments and themes, it would seem somewhat obvious, but to the regular moviegoer, it would not be so.
Also, we aren't entirely sure how this may play out in the plot, but could just be a way of generally detailing his capabilities. Saying that it is "hitting the viewer over the head with a mallet" I think is an exaggeration. It is a slight bit of potential foreshadowing, and isn't spelling anything out directly.
QuoteAlso, at the very end of the video, there appears to be a contradiction. The Weyland acronym for these androids is "TIPE", standing for: Technological, Intellectual, Physical, Emotional
By "emotional", they're selling it in how it can "understand" and simulate the emotion, but not entirely "feel" it. It's not a contradiction, just a way to make it easier for a potential consumer to connect with David, just as he says his emotional simulations are designed to make it easier to interact with him earlier on.
QuoteWhy exactly would Weyland let it's customer's (and the world) know that their androids could potentially perform unethical and potentially illegal acts...even if it were true. I can't see how that would benefit the Weyland Corp. If anything, it opens up the door for catastrophic legal liability.
I would imagine that David has some limit to his potential "unethical" actions. It is described that unnecessary violence, cruelty, and war are things that "sadden" him, then it would be safe to assume that he is designed to not promote or be involved with such things. Though, of course, he could be a tad glitchy, lol.
Looks like the viral campain is going in to overdrive. Stills lots to unlock.
That third image is veery "Alien" looking
If we get infected by the prometheus viral videos, will a space tapir grow within us?
I'm going to check my temperature!
^
New pics
Building Better Worlds indeed... 8)
Are those solar plants on a remote world in pic2?
Why was everybody upset with Ellen Ripley in Alien, because when she kept people locked out of the main ship as part fo quarantine people felt her actions were immoral. It doesn't mean that he is immoral, but that he can make rational decisions without morality or a sense or morality making him question himself.
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 17, 2012, 07:47:56 PM
Why was everybody upset with Ellen Ripley in Alien, because when she kept people locked out of the main ship as part fo quarantine people felt her actions were immoral. It doesn't mean that he is immoral, but that he can make rational decisions without morality or a sense or morality making him question himself.
The video said unethical. No mention that david is without morals. ;)
Why does war, poverty, and cruelty make him sad? He is a mirror image of humanity.
I am going to assume that the pictures are artistic drawings, and in the first example, to be a highly stylized:
(https://www.weylandindustries.com/img/home/entry_01_02.jpg)
There is no way that the relative positions and alignments of these planets and moons, as depicted in the "drawing", could ever represent a stable, multi-body celestial system.
I actually found this trailer pretty disturbing. He's so human yet completely robotic.
I just watched the David viral for the second time and I'm starting to think he is a psycho android with a creation complex. Glitchy.
Eva you have the fastest signatures in the west. Awesome! :laugh:
Prometheus is dripping from the same vein as Alien, even Aliens quite a bit imo. But the point is that those situations really tend to bring out the twitchiness in whatever artificial persons are exposed. I think this could be due to the exposure of another independent, sentient lifeform (like the androids are themselves,) the pain and death of human comrades, conflicting interests and orders from their parent organization (which could even be seen as their god since they technically created them,) and confronting their own independence and ability to act during such situations.
So interesting, I loved both the replicants and synthetics and feel that they really bring a lot to alien-related stories (alien used as the general term, not specifically xenomorphs.)
My favorite part is how they've made the synthetics in the Aliens universe actually display very powerful character despite their origin. Ash and Bishop were very different in the end, but displayed incredible personality in their own unique directions. I have faith that Ridley will let us see David grow in this same way, and either love him like Bishop or hate him like magazine-rapist Ash. :laugh:
Wow, those new pictures are great!
They aren't all from the actual movie though right?
I'm telling ya. Anyone who thinks David is going to go bonkers is being lead down the wrong path. They want you to think that, but honestly, why would Ridley repeat himself? He's obviously more curious to explore these guys. :)
great feature :)
Anyone notice that he doesnt actually cry in the sad section until he says that he understands human emotions but doesnt feel them?
He also smiles when he says Emotional at the end of saying the TIPE stuff.
Interesting...
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 17, 2012, 07:49:49 PM
I am going to assume that the pictures are artistic drawings, and in the first example, to be a highly stylized:
https://www.weylandindustries.com/img/home/entry_01_02.jpg
There is no way that the relative positions and alignments of these planets and moons, as depicted in the "drawing", could ever represent a stable, multi-body celestial system.
I can imagine that painted on black velvet by some Bob Ross protoge and sold outside some Navaho casino in Nevada...
Quote from: OpenMaw on Apr 17, 2012, 09:05:35 PM
I'm telling ya. Anyone who thinks David is going to go bonkers is being lead down the wrong path. They want you to think that, but honestly, why would Ridley repeat himself? He's obviously more curious to explore these guys. :)
I kind of agree. If David pulls an Ash, I will genuinely surprised. He might have a few bad moments, but I think overall he will help out the humans.
Now, there's always the possibility of
multiple Davids...That can certainly change things up.
Maybe David's emotions come into play and he does something to save the crew and endangers Weyland's scheme – and that's why Ash's android later on is devoid of any emotional attachment towards anything. Just a thought. :)
some interesting stuff here...
https://www.weylandindustries.com/site/investor (https://www.weylandindustries.com/site/investor)
why would norway have a high unemployment rate? why are iceland and iran (for example), black? no data? why would there be no data on the unemployment rate for those countries...?
gross sales 267 trillion dollars. the entire human economy must have exponentially exploded at some point between the present and the prometheus taking off for LV-223...
"Cosmic call 2 messages received 3/5" what does that mean? check-in reports from the prometheus on it's way to LV-223?
838 million employees, almost 620 million employees on earth... i'm guessing that weyland industries is the senior partner in the weyland-yutani combo from this information, i don't think earth or the colonies would be big enough for 2 corporations that big
Ah, at least a character I can relate too !
I'm kidding. Or not. When you're a bit Aspergian and a bit schizoid, sci-fi robots are what you can better relate to. I'm sure sometimes I can look more robotic than that (but in the ridiculous way, not in the clever acting one !) !
By the way, good viral policy. David will definitely be an highlight of the movie.
QuoteNEUTRAL
David 8 can be programmed to enter a default neutral state, devoid of emotional engagement. In this state, David 8 reacts to his surroundings using only his logic actuators and does not access his facial mapping sensors or other advanced emotion-response pathways. His Motivation Sequences are bypassed in favor of a simplified rational response. This state can be useful for applications where traditional non-feeling cybernetic behavior is required.
why hallo here mr kill everyone switch
Quote from: deepelemblues on Apr 17, 2012, 09:40:02 PM
QuoteNEUTRAL
David 8 can be programmed to enter a default neutral state, devoid of emotional engagement. In this state, David 8 reacts to his surroundings using only his logic actuators and does not access his facial mapping sensors or other advanced emotion-response pathways. His Motivation Sequences are bypassed in favor of a simplified rational response. This state can be useful for applications where traditional non-feeling cybernetic behavior is required.
why hallo here mr kill everyone switch
Good catch! Curve ball in the script :D
I liked the cloaked Predator cameo
That was quite brilliant !
Really looking forward to seeing more of David in the movie....roll on june 1st !!
Quote from: deepelemblues on Apr 17, 2012, 09:40:02 PM
QuoteNEUTRAL
David 8 can be programmed to enter a default neutral state, devoid of emotional engagement. In this state, David 8 reacts to his surroundings using only his logic actuators and does not access his facial mapping sensors or other advanced emotion-response pathways. His Motivation Sequences are bypassed in favor of a simplified rational response. This state can be useful for applications where traditional non-feeling cybernetic behavior is required.
why hallo here mr kill everyone switch
Kneeing David in the groin while singing the chorus to "Daisy Bell" will activate David's secret berzerker mode.
Stunning, I must admit I'm more excited about Fassbenders performance than anything else!
HD version here. Right-Click Save Target As (http://s1sdlod007.bcst.cdn.s1s.yimg.com/s1snfs07r12/012/yahoomovies/5/131445654.mp4?StreamID=131445654&pl_auth=0fc89a415bf03418a83133369e72042f&ht=120&b=5uru3th7o0nsh4f8df296).
Think I'll stick with the version 7 thanks...
Quote from: SM on Apr 17, 2012, 10:48:57 PM
Think I'll stick with the version 7 thanks...
Well, version 8 mixes a better martini. The only problem is that if you accidentally activate his assassination mode, he may add a splash of Polonium-210.
Quote from: SM on Apr 17, 2012, 10:48:57 PM
Think I'll stick with the version 7 thanks...
i'll wait until the Ash model is released, it's rumored to be the much more efficient and dependable.
And about a good 80% less creepy.
The oldschool default mode.......
Quote from: Zeta Reticuli on Apr 17, 2012, 10:56:48 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 17, 2012, 10:48:57 PM
Think I'll stick with the version 7 thanks...
i'll wait until the Ash model is released, it's rumored to be the much more efficient and dependable.
But the Bishop model does cool tricks!
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 17, 2012, 07:49:42 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 17, 2012, 07:47:56 PM
Why was everybody upset with Ellen Ripley in Alien, because when she kept people locked out of the main ship as part fo quarantine people felt her actions were immoral. It doesn't mean that he is immoral, but that he can make rational decisions without morality or a sense or morality making him question himself.
The video said unethical. No mention that david is without morals. ;)
Why does war, poverty, and cruelty make him sad? He is a mirror image of humanity.
Seems to be the same thing to me... Point is there are tough decisions that humans put a ethical or moral spin on... David is free of these problems. Say one person on a space ship detaches from a main ship to go take samples etc. That ship becomes disabled, and to rescue the person on the ship you would risk the lives of everyone on the main ship. Some people might feel that it's unethical to allow the person to die without attempting to save them, David would not be hindered in that way :)
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 17, 2012, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: Zeta Reticuli on Apr 17, 2012, 10:56:48 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 17, 2012, 10:48:57 PM
Think I'll stick with the version 7 thanks...
i'll wait until the Ash model is released, it's rumored to be the much more efficient and dependable.
But the Bishop model does cool tricks!
Bit of a wait for them though.
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 18, 2012, 12:01:02 AM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 17, 2012, 07:49:42 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 17, 2012, 07:47:56 PM
Why was everybody upset with Ellen Ripley in Alien, because when she kept people locked out of the main ship as part fo quarantine people felt her actions were immoral. It doesn't mean that he is immoral, but that he can make rational decisions without morality or a sense or morality making him question himself.
The video said unethical. No mention that david is without morals. ;)
Why does war, poverty, and cruelty make him sad? He is a mirror image of humanity.
Seems to be the same thing to me... Point is there are tough decisions that humans put a ethical or moral spin on... David is free of these problems. Say one person on a space ship detaches from a main ship to go take samples etc. That ship becomes disabled, and to rescue the person on the ship you would risk the lives of everyone on the main ship. Some people might feel that it's unethical to allow the person to die without attempting to save them, David would not be hindered in that way :)
Sometimes things might seem to be the same thing (e.g. proven innocent vs. not guilty) but they actually have profoundly different meanings and implications.
I want a David 8.
F@#K the David 8....I want a Teddy!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi763.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx274%2FDeuterium2h%2FTeddy1.jpg&hash=446cd6f55635811b67062104575b4f26f3fb3c8d)
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 18, 2012, 01:26:06 AM
F@#K the David 8....I want a Teddy!
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx274/Deuterium2h/Teddy1.jpg
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1175.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr623%2FPunisher616%2Fbicentennialman.jpg&hash=f0bcabb4c7791252cfa99066bedb8f3f94ae4302)
Wow--this was a lot better than the silly TED video. Still a bit tongue-in-cheek, but very cool regardless.
Quote from: ikarop on Apr 17, 2012, 10:48:44 PM
HD version here. Right-Click Save Target As (http://s1sdlod007.bcst.cdn.s1s.yimg.com/s1snfs07r12/012/yahoomovies/5/131445654.mp4?StreamID=131445654&pl_auth=0fc89a415bf03418a83133369e72042f&ht=120&b=5uru3th7o0nsh4f8df296).
It's not working :-\ Any chance you could upload the 1080 for us to download, ikarop?
Why did they spoil who was the android?
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Apr 18, 2012, 06:18:47 AM
Why did they spoil who was the android?
I don't recall it every being a secret.
Yeah, they released that timeline weeks ago that talked about David model androids. It's been out in the open for ages. Can't imagine Riddles repeating himself with the "SHOCK!! SECRET ROBOT!!!" again.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 18, 2012, 02:19:08 AM
Wow--this was a lot better than the silly TED video. Still a bit tongue-in-cheek, but very cool regardless.
Quote from: ikarop on Apr 17, 2012, 10:48:44 PM
HD version here. Right-Click Save Target As (http://s1sdlod007.bcst.cdn.s1s.yimg.com/s1snfs07r12/012/yahoomovies/5/131445654.mp4?StreamID=131445654&pl_auth=0fc89a415bf03418a83133369e72042f&ht=120&b=5uru3th7o0nsh4f8df296).
It's not working :-\ Any chance you could upload the 1080 for us to download, ikarop?
Seconded :(
Quote from: LarsVader on Apr 18, 2012, 06:32:51 AM
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 18, 2012, 02:19:08 AM
Wow--this was a lot better than the silly TED video. Still a bit tongue-in-cheek, but very cool regardless.
Quote from: ikarop on Apr 17, 2012, 10:48:44 PM
HD version here. Right-Click Save Target As (http://s1sdlod007.bcst.cdn.s1s.yimg.com/s1snfs07r12/012/yahoomovies/5/131445654.mp4?StreamID=131445654&pl_auth=0fc89a415bf03418a83133369e72042f&ht=120&b=5uru3th7o0nsh4f8df296).
It's not working :-\ Any chance you could upload the 1080 for us to download, ikarop?
Seconded :(
You can save the 720p/1080p youtube version from here:
http://www.saveyoutube.com/watch?v=cWmbqH_z7jM (http://www.saveyoutube.com/watch?v=cWmbqH_z7jM)
:)
I know, but I don't want a lossy Youtube encode, I want one of the original 1080p source files nicked from Yahoo, etc :P
Quote from: Eva on Apr 18, 2012, 06:42:31 AM
Quote from: LarsVader on Apr 18, 2012, 06:32:51 AM
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 18, 2012, 02:19:08 AM
Wow--this was a lot better than the silly TED video. Still a bit tongue-in-cheek, but very cool regardless.
Quote from: ikarop on Apr 17, 2012, 10:48:44 PM
HD version here. Right-Click Save Target As (http://s1sdlod007.bcst.cdn.s1s.yimg.com/s1snfs07r12/012/yahoomovies/5/131445654.mp4?StreamID=131445654&pl_auth=0fc89a415bf03418a83133369e72042f&ht=120&b=5uru3th7o0nsh4f8df296).
It's not working :-\ Any chance you could upload the 1080 for us to download, ikarop?
Seconded :(
You can save the 720p/1080p youtube version from here:
http://www.saveyoutube.com/watch?v=cWmbqH_z7jM (http://www.saveyoutube.com/watch?v=cWmbqH_z7jM)
:)
Thanks, :)
but allready did that.
From experience the yahoo HD videos have much less compression artifacts than their youtube counterparts.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 18, 2012, 06:44:44 AM
I know, but I don't want a lossy Youtube encode, I want one of the original 1080p source files nicked from Yahoo, etc :P
Spoiler
We are the music makers ...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg51.imageshack.us%2Fimg51%2F6537%2Fvsalt.jpg&hash=006d9b430fb757b3bcc35365d7f89dd6ae0be3c8)
and we are the dreamers of dreams.
Quote from: Cvalda on Apr 18, 2012, 06:44:44 AM
I know, but I don't want a lossy Youtube encode, I want one of the original 1080p source files nicked from Yahoo, etc :P
Quote from: LarsVader on Apr 18, 2012, 06:48:13 AM
Thanks, :)
but allready did that.
From experience the yahoo HD videos have much less compression artifacts than their youtube counterparts.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg513.imageshack.us%2Fimg513%2F2451%2Fanihouse.gif&hash=5ad47619fcec9137f07df847974593712953c0e5)
:P ;)
Has anyone noticed how David's hair is all wrong on the video? In the trailers his hair is facing the right, here it faces to the left... I wonder why they did that or missed that detail.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Apr 18, 2012, 06:18:47 AM
Why did they spoil who was the android?
Scott and Lindelof have been open about this for the last year. Scott even insinuates there may be more than one ;)
Quote from: Federick Gonsa on Apr 18, 2012, 07:41:38 AM
Has anyone noticed how David's hair is all wrong on the video? In the trailers his hair is facing the right, here it faces to the left... I wonder why they did that or missed that detail.
His hair is bleach blonde in some stills, and shorter - which makes me think there's truth in Scott's earlier suggestion that there are multiple synthetics in the film.
Spoiler
one aboard the Prometheus...another with the aged Weyland aboard another ship
By the way, who's to say that the David in the viral video is the same David that we see on the ship?
David8 Ripley8......hmmmmm
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Apr 18, 2012, 11:05:04 AM
By the way, who's to say that the David in the viral video is the same David that we see on the ship?
David8 Ripley8......hmmmmm
He is the same, they are all the same. ;)
So do you think David is going to turn out to be an antagonist? I see alot of human qualities in this viral and I can see the possibility of him developing a consiousness somehow. I don't want to see him go the path of Ash. I'd want him to redeem himself somehow if he does go against his beligerent programming(if he in fact has malicious intent).
Quote from: KirklandSignature on Apr 18, 2012, 12:59:45 PM
So do you think David is going to turn out to be an antagonist? I see alot of human qualities in this viral and I can see the possibility of him developing a consiousness somehow. I don't want to see him go the path of Ash. I'd want him to redeem himself somehow if he does go against his beligerent programming(if he in fact has malicious intent).
I'm thinking that he's going to be a good guy, but he's going to be forced into making some poor choices, possibly getting a person or people killed, which he struggles to deal with. That could make him a bit crazy, but hopefully he'll recover.
There is, though, the possibility of multiple Davids. Now that can really throw my theory off...
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 18, 2012, 12:59:37 AM
Sometimes things might seem to be the same thing (e.g. proven innocent vs. not guilty) but they actually have profoundly different meanings and implications.
Please feel free to follow up... as a former law enforcement agent I understand the difference between proven innocent and not guilty, however, I am not following how that relates to the discussion.
I don't think the commercial is necessarily a blatant attempt at saying that David is unethical, immoral, evil, bad... whatever you want to call it. I think it's simply saying that he is not tethered to the same problems as humans, why do militaries the world over spend so much time training soldiers to follow orders without question. The simple answer is because some of the things they have to do, might bother the person's moral/ethical compass...
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 18, 2012, 01:26:06 AM
F@#K the David 8....I want a Teddy!
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx274/Deuterium2h/Teddy1.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxKfC77XAp8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxKfC77XAp8#ws)
Quote from: Despicable Dugong on Apr 18, 2012, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 18, 2012, 01:26:06 AM
F@#K the David 8....I want a Teddy!
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx274/Deuterium2h/Teddy1.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxKfC77XAp8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxKfC77XAp8#ws)
LOL ! Awesome ;D
This Ted sounds like he might be a fun bloke to have a few beers with...but I probably wouldn't be able to put up with him, except in short, infrequent doses. I will stick with the original Teddy, thank you.
After all, Super-Toys last all summer long. This "Ted", however, would probably spend most of the time either in the local jail, or at the emergency room.
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 18, 2012, 01:41:32 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 18, 2012, 12:59:37 AM
Sometimes things might seem to be the same thing (e.g. proven innocent vs. not guilty) but they actually have profoundly different meanings and implications.
Please feel free to follow up... as a former law enforcement agent I understand the difference between proven innocent and not guilty, however, I am not following how that relates to the discussion.
I don't think the commercial is necessarily a blatant attempt at saying that David is unethical, immoral, evil, bad... whatever you want to call it. I think it's simply saying that he is not tethered to the same problems as humans, why do militaries the world over spend so much time training soldiers to follow orders without question. The simple answer is because some of the things they have to do, might bother the person's moral/ethical compass...
Google search: ethics vs morality, or moral vs ethical.
Space and time each have separate definitions, but as a concept of reality they are inseparable. :)
'immoral' was never used in the new David Video...
Don't know if this has been posted before but the David section at the Weyland site has been updated with tons of new info, like descriptions of his various abilities and a really cool full blown specifications section.
https://www.weylandindustries.com/david (https://www.weylandindustries.com/david)
^^ I hadn't seen this before. Good work! It's like the revised version of The Laws of Robotics, Asimov-style.
Cheers. Wonder if Ash 120/A2's could "infer the linguistic components of entirely new languages"...
The T.E.D viral makes more sense now.
Apparently the David 8 will do anything it is ordered... I assume it could be ordered to kill and have 'sad face' whilst it does it...
Also I wonder just what a David 8 finds disgusting??
Kinda scary he will not stop until he carries out his order... reminds me of another robot... ;)
He is quite a useful bit of kit though... Technological aspects can include scouting thanks to his programmed return routines and eidetic memory is handy in that aspect also. Makes sense he'd be sent in with the ground team into the temple.
Anyone notice he can learn new languages due to inflections heard in it? Engineer language, anyone? ... and whats a fear center safety program??
Also, I noted he has to replace his high-turbidity hydraulic fluid... white blood anyone?
^^So the Engineers feel threatened by David? That humans have become Gods in their abitity to create life?
Wow... that's not actually a half bad theory.
and then they make him human.
Goddammit, Chupa, at least give me just this one to approve of.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftnation.t-nation.com%2Fforum_images%2F8%2F6%2F86f36_ORIG-man_without_a_face_in_disgrace_pulls_alpha_face.jpg&hash=f1a5411edd30b15772b19cfe4d4b7d80b37f7917)
Just this one.
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 18, 2012, 10:11:11 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 18, 2012, 01:41:32 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 18, 2012, 12:59:37 AM
Sometimes things might seem to be the same thing (e.g. proven innocent vs. not guilty) but they actually have profoundly different meanings and implications.
Please feel free to follow up... as a former law enforcement agent I understand the difference between proven innocent and not guilty, however, I am not following how that relates to the discussion.
I don't think the commercial is necessarily a blatant attempt at saying that David is unethical, immoral, evil, bad... whatever you want to call it. I think it's simply saying that he is not tethered to the same problems as humans, why do militaries the world over spend so much time training soldiers to follow orders without question. The simple answer is because some of the things they have to do, might bother the person's moral/ethical compass...
Google search: ethics vs morality, or moral vs ethical.
Space and time each have separate definitions, but as a concept of reality they are inseparable. :)
mor·al [mawr-uhl, mor-] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical
eth·ics [eth-iks] Show IPA
plural noun
1.
( used with a singular or plural verb ) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.
Please go define tomato, and then define tomahto...
Quote from: Blanco on Apr 19, 2012, 12:40:06 AM^^So the Engineers feel threatened by David? That humans have become Gods in their abitity to create life?
Maybe not threatened, but it could be the thing that causes them to call game over on the human race. David represents a level of advancement that they think we should not have attained. To them, only they are worthy of the proverbial 'fire'. Nice thinking
Blanco.
Looool -> Space Sweepers new avatar + sig :laugh:
David will be awesome. That is all. 8)
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 19, 2012, 01:39:32 AM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 18, 2012, 10:11:11 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 18, 2012, 01:41:32 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 18, 2012, 12:59:37 AM
Sometimes things might seem to be the same thing (e.g. proven innocent vs. not guilty) but they actually have profoundly different meanings and implications.
Please feel free to follow up... as a former law enforcement agent I understand the difference between proven innocent and not guilty, however, I am not following how that relates to the discussion.
I don't think the commercial is necessarily a blatant attempt at saying that David is unethical, immoral, evil, bad... whatever you want to call it. I think it's simply saying that he is not tethered to the same problems as humans, why do militaries the world over spend so much time training soldiers to follow orders without question. The simple answer is because some of the things they have to do, might bother the person's moral/ethical compass...
Google search: ethics vs morality, or moral vs ethical.
Space and time each have separate definitions, but as a concept of reality they are inseparable. :)
mor·al [mawr-uhl, mor-] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical
eth·ics [eth-iks] Show IPA
plural noun
1.
( used with a singular or plural verb ) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.
Please go define tomato, and then define tomahto...
Tomato tomatoe? Is that how you would explain the differences between not guilty and proven innocent?
Morals and ethics are not the same, but don't let me stop you from using them interchangably.
eth·i·cal
[eth-i-kuhl]
- adjective 1. pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct
2. being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, esp. the standards of a profession
3. (of drugs) sold only upon medical prescription
Ethics can for all intensive purposes be interchangeable with morals, all the arguments against that fact make no sense, anything applied to ethics can also be applied to morals and vice versa. The definition is clear, if you want your own individual idea of ethics separated from your idea of morals so be it, but it does not make it so in actuality.
Hmmmmmmm the elusive second ship theory.There are 17 official crew members aboard the prometheus and one unofficial guest.There is no second ship.Let the idea go.
Quote from: EXTERMINATUS on Apr 19, 2012, 07:35:20 AM
Hmmmmmmm the elusive second ship theory.There are 17 official crew members aboard the prometheus and one unofficial guest.There is no second ship.Let the idea go.
???
To what, or to whom are you directly responding to?
was reading through and someone mentioned a second ship again.There is no second ship.
Who the hell is Shaw??? I think David is the main character.
Some David 8 bits and pieces I thought were cool:
- Dimensions
Height 1.87 meters
Weight 86 kg
Size David 8 wears Weyland Industries standard uniform (accepts model sizes 6-8)
- With a fluid intelligence on the order of 200 petaflops, David 8 exhibits twice the neural net capacity of humans.
- An advanced polyurethane coating replicates the biological properties of human skin to exact texture, pliability and tensile strength. With a cadmium alloy endoskeleton, David 8's frame can withstand over 1,000 pounds of compression force.
- The Weyland-stamped fingerprint lets you know that each David 8 cybernetic individual comes from The Company you know and trust.
- Multi-degree range of motion greater than human capacity
- 30x visual magnification with increased depth of field
- 700-lb lifting capacity
- Polymer-encased brain stem component
- Unlimited memory
- David 8 is fluent in all known languages through a dialectic implant and can infer the linguistic components of entirely new languages if encountered.
- Unlike previous models, David 8 can conduct all of his own maintenance procedures.
He's like a superhero compared to the rest of the crew. ;D
One can have morals without ethics, but one cannot have ethics without morals. Please read the definitions you copy/paste.
Or as I mentioned earlier, google search: moral vs ethical
I hope we get to see David8 with his "emotions" switched off! This movie is exciting.
Have a good day everyone!
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 19, 2012, 12:02:48 PM
I hope we get to see David8 with his "emotions" switched off! This movie is exciting.
Have a good day everyone!
...
You are cheerful the individual I one day aspire to be.
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 19, 2012, 12:02:48 PM
One can have morals without ethics, but one cannot have ethics without morals. Please read the definitions you copy/paste.
Or as I mentioned earlier, google search: moral vs ethical
I hope we get to see David8 with his "emotions" switched off! This movie is exciting.
Have a good day everyone!
The difference between ethics and morals can seem somewhat arbitrary to many, but there is a basic, albeit subtle, difference. Morals define personal character, while ethics stress a social system in which those morals are applied.
That is from Googling morals vs ethics...
The reason it seems arbitrary to many, myself included, is because society is made up of indivduals. A social compact of ethical decision is made up based on the morals of the indivduals in the social system, therefore morals decide ethics and makes them interchangable.
In keeping the banter going, I hope we don't see David's emotions switch off... we have already had Ash... I hope his emotions get cranked up and we get a situation where his emotions start to make him more human that robot. That could lead to some big turmoil... That or to have David lead to what eventually is the Xeno we know of...
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 19, 2012, 12:59:57 PMIn keeping the banter going, I hope we don't see David's emotions switch off... we have already had Ash...
I never saw Ash as being emotionless. He was psychotic no doubt, be he more than once displayed genuine emotion that was not simply an act designed to manipulate his fellows: perplexity when Ripley suggests someone should go after Dallas, Lambert and Kane, and an almost child-like guilt when Ripley sneaks up on him in the med lab. In a lot of ways, Ash displayed a much deeper emotional range than Bishop ever did.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Apr 19, 2012, 01:08:47 PM
Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Apr 19, 2012, 12:59:57 PMIn keeping the banter going, I hope we don't see David's emotions switch off... we have already had Ash...
I never saw Ash as being emotionless. He was psychotic no doubt, be he more than once displayed genuine emotion that was not simply an act designed to manipulate his fellows: perplexity when Ripley suggests someone should go after Dallas, Lambert and Kane, and an almost child-like guilt when Ripley sneaks up on him in the med lab. In a lot of ways, Ash displayed a much deeper emotional range than Bishop ever did.
I mean't Bishop... you are right Ash did display emotion, but not the level I would have liked... I think the idea that this robot wants to be human would play out more interesting than zero emotions. I also think this desire to be human would also play well to connect this movie to the realm of Blade Runner also.
when i saw alien the first time i couldn't distinguish ash from the others. they were all some kind of cold & not empathizing, except for ripley, lambert & parker.
david is an early robot, compared to ash & bishop, so of course ash (or his programmers) has overcome the childish behavior.
Quote from: Biomechanoid20 on Apr 19, 2012, 10:48:06 AM
Some David 8 bits and pieces I thought were cool:
- Dimensions
Height 1.87 meters
Weight 86 kg
Size David 8 wears Weyland Industries standard uniform (accepts model sizes 6-8)
- With a fluid intelligence on the order of 200 petaflops, David 8 exhibits twice the neural net capacity of humans.
- An advanced polyurethane coating replicates the biological properties of human skin to exact texture, pliability and tensile strength. With a cadmium alloy endoskeleton, David 8's frame can withstand over 1,000 pounds of compression force.
- The Weyland-stamped fingerprint lets you know that each David 8 cybernetic individual comes from The Company you know and trust.
- Multi-degree range of motion greater than human capacity
- 30x visual magnification with increased depth of field
- 700-lb lifting capacity
- Polymer-encased brain stem component
- Unlimited memory
- David 8 is fluent in all known languages through a dialectic implant and can infer the linguistic components of entirely new languages if encountered.
- Unlike previous models, David 8 can conduct all of his own maintenance procedures.
He's like a superhero compared to the rest of the crew. ;D
Dear David:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t3Nm3Vdr-o# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t3Nm3Vdr-o#)
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Apr 19, 2012, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 19, 2012, 12:02:48 PM
I hope we get to see David8 with his "emotions" switched off! This movie is exciting.
Have a good day everyone!
...
You are cheerful the individual I one day aspire to be.
Cool beans and cheesy fritos! ;D
Prometheus will have some very intriguing parts to unfold with the emotions of David8, I suspect.
David8 will have a lot of time on his lonesome to contemplate whatever it is robots like him are capable of contemplating on the Prometheus' journey to the SJ planet...
All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy. All work and no play makes David8 a dull boy.
;D
"One can have morals without ethics, but one cannot have ethics without morals. Please read the definitions you copy/paste.
Or as I mentioned earlier, google search: moral vs ethical"
I have and I did, the fact remains that they are still essentially interchangeable "you could never pick out one concept that is clearly signified by one of the words that the other one doesn't also represent in common usage. "
God damn it... If there's one thing I have grown to loathe in science-fiction films it's when mass produced AIs are literally given emotions. It was crappy when they tried to portray it in Call and I see no legitimate reason for it here, either.
I'm going to get bad flashbacks to watching 'Stealth' during this, I know it...
How pleasant to know that these things with vastly superior sensory and physical capabilities can "resist" the temptation to get angry with humans. Yes... I'd just love one of those working alongside me in a hostile/dangerous environment. It's bad enough when ordinary equipment malfunctions, let alone something complex enough to potentially go having an emotional breakdown!
It's the very thing I detested about the prequel episode of 'The Animatrix'. It simply doesn't make sense to install that sort of thing on machines which are basically engineered for the express purpose of slave labour.
Yes, I know that Ash/Bishop had moments which inferred possible emotions, but those were always ambiguous enough to be interpreted in a variety of ways.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 20, 2012, 01:11:32 AMIt simply doesn't make sense to install that sort of thing on machines which are basically engineered for the express purpose of slave labour.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. The David 8 viral quite clearly shows that David is not an emotional being. It's in the sales pitch that he is made to
appear emotional so that he can integrate with the other staff on whatever workforce he is a part of. All of the other robots in the series - with the exception of Call, who doesn't exist anyway - could fit into this mold. Even Ash's private showings of emotion could be thought of as the result of a programming directive rather than a real feeling.
David tears up because he's programmed to. Same as Call.
If he doesn't have emotions, he shouldn't be capable of saying what makes him 'sad', let alone be giving specifics.
He's been programmed to know what makes him 'sad'.
Watching David8 cry touched me in places that an Android has never touched before. ;D
David8 expresses emotion...he doesn't feel them....there's a difference. Calm down. :)
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Apr 20, 2012, 02:35:50 AM
David8 expresses emotion...he doesn't feel them....there's a difference. Calm down. :)
Yes! And fassbender
nailed it. would you cry if someone asked you what makes you sad? He doesn't even really cry, just tears rolling down his face as he carries on with a mild inflection of sadness in his voice.
Quote from: Predaker on Apr 20, 2012, 02:29:17 AM
Watching David8 cry touched me in places that an Android has never touched before. ;D
Why don't you have a seat...
Comcast took down my upload of the David 8 video today. Guess the full 2:38 min ad is going on TV?
Took it down from where?
That nig*a is dirty, mark my words. I think he's the sole reason a lot of what happens in the film...happens.
what about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgJs7uluwlU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgJs7uluwlU#ws)
it has even a "narrator" at the beginning.
That's the official upload from the Prometheus channel. Fan uploads are being removed for the most part. Comcast doesn't play around, lol.
i have a question: is david 8 simply named that way, because of his capability of 8 certain emotions?
Quote from: Kol on Apr 20, 2012, 12:47:17 PM
i have a question: is david 8 simply named that way, because of his capability of 8 certain emotions?
I just took it as him being the eight model in Weyland's David line. I'm sure Ash and Bishop had numbers as well.
He's the 8th model.
Found this on the Prometheus Facebook page:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/392428_260268170736914_111092022321197_528053_1575832320_n.jpg)
Quote from: Kol on Apr 20, 2012, 12:47:17 PM
i have a question: is david 8 simply named that way, because of his capability of 8 certain emotions?
Heck, I suppose that is possible. Nice catch. I think most of us are thinking the number represents the newest model in an already established David series. However, is there any official reference to a David "7" or earlier? You might be absolutely correct, mate.
If any of you weren't able to pick up The Wall Street Journal, here is the David 8 newspaper ad:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flatino-review.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2Fprometheus-david-wsj-ad-600.jpg&hash=c61bb244d18500fdf50c9757c3835cdb03f1b565)
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Apr 20, 2012, 02:35:50 AM
David8 expresses emotion...he doesn't feel them....there's a difference. Calm down. :)
And yet, this contradicts what's immediately said before. David says that he
does become sad. That he's capable of
being sad. Even goes so far as to specify what causes him to be so - situational concepts.
Then states he doesn't "feel" emotions?
This is contradictory. If he's sad, then he's sad. And if outside stimuli causes it, then he's prone to it interfering with designated tasks.
Just like how he's logically also capable of feeling lonely and resentful upon realising he's effectively nothing but slave labour - and capable of taking action to liberate himself from that. This is why it's an idiotic idea to give machines like that this capacity and why it will never happen in reality.
I've got nothing against the actor's portrayal. Just the tired concept of robotic labour assistants/project managers with 'feelings'.
At the end of the viral video it says, "eighth generation."
Makes me wonder what the original David was like. :)
I just want to know how they can go from this "near perfect" David 8 android yet 30 years later we have this sketchy paranoid up to no good Ash android.
Because I believe Ash's protocol was tampered with. It's clear he had insidious motivations. He was a Company droid.
That's right, he was tampered with. I completely forgot about that.
There's no evidence to indicate Ash was tampered with.
Bishop indicates that behavioural inhibitors are a recent development.
There's no evidence...except Ash's behavior...and the fact that no one knew he was a droid, and he was put on board the Nostromo at the last minute...please...people...the evidence is right there.
No, it isn't. Don't make shit up.
Nothing you've said indicates he was tampered with.
If he never had behavioural inhibitors - which would seem to be the case based on what Bishop said - all he did was obey the special order he was given. He did what he was built to do.
A special order he was given that no one else knew about. Maybe he wasn't opened up and altered, but he was certainly strategically placed on that ship, The Company knew. I call that tampered with, as far as the Human crew is concerned. Everything else is semantics.
Then you have the wrong definition of "tampered with".
Quote from: SM on Apr 21, 2012, 01:16:58 AM
Then you have the wrong definition of "tampered with".
I would say you're being a bit stingy too in one respect SM. Ash was
given special orders. IE: programmed, tampered with, to do something likely outside of the regular programming of these "suit" type droids.
I very much doubt the company built their robots to go on magazine oral rape and attempted murder sprees. Granted, it does make for a rousing Friday night...
Quote from: Rick Grimes on Apr 21, 2012, 12:27:39 AM
I just want to know how they can go from this "near perfect" David 8 android yet 30 years later we have this sketchy paranoid up to no good Ash android.
My guess is either he is an advanced model. David 8 could be in the line of 8 advanced andriods or cause they express eight emotions (or the eight generation of davids) Or an update of the synthetic models made them have this error and they fix it in the later models. Like windows XP being great while Vista has multiple problems.
Quote from: Deuterium on Apr 20, 2012, 06:25:48 PM
Quote from: Kol on Apr 20, 2012, 12:47:17 PM
i have a question: is david 8 simply named that way, because of his capability of 8 certain emotions?
Heck, I suppose that is possible. Nice catch. I think most of us are thinking the number represents the newest model in an already established David series. However, is there any official reference to a David "7" or earlier? You might be absolutely correct, mate.
Module 1.4 of the Weyland Industries investor information has a breakdown of the aspects of each David model from 1 to 7. Here: https://www.weylandindustries.com/investor (https://www.weylandindustries.com/investor)
Quote from: OpenMaw on Apr 21, 2012, 01:50:38 AM
I would say you're being a bit stingy too in one respect SM. Ash was given special orders. IE: programmed, tampered with, to do something likely outside of the regular programming of these "suit" type droids.
I very much doubt the company built their robots to go on magazine oral rape and attempted murder sprees. Granted, it does make for a rousing Friday night...
That's not "tampering". That's just giving the thing new instructions.
Tampering would be along the lines of literally altering its programming. Ash never gave any such indications. Computers don't interpret one set of orders as dodgy and another as not. If a computer's capable of seeing them through, then it'll see them through. Whether or not the machine is optimally designed to carry out a particular task or not, is neither here nor there.
As for Ash's model, Bishop did state "the A/2s always were a bit twitchy", implying they were not yet at the level of processing which the Bishops are.
However, it's worth keeping in mind that we don't know if Weyland-Yutani made Ash or not. Building robots might be something they got out of, by that time. I'd say we also don't know if they made the Bishops, but the quote in '
Alien 3', where Bishop mentioned all data going back to the company's network, implied they might have. We don't know the background of that, though - Bishop might simply have been aware of it happening with other equipment, as opposed to being responsible for facilitating it.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 21, 2012, 04:48:57 AM
However, it's worth keeping in mind that we don't know if Weyland-Yutani made Ash or not. Building robots might be something they got out of, by that time. I'd say we also don't know if they made the Bishops, but the quote in 'Alien 3', where Bishop mentioned all data going back to the company's network, implied they might have. We don't know the background of that, though - Bishop might simply have been aware of it happening with other equipment, as opposed to being responsible for facilitating it.
It's not indicated in the film, but I always assumed the situation with Ash going peculiar was caused by some kind of a conflict in his programming more than anything. Much like HAL in 2001.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Apr 21, 2012, 04:57:53 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 21, 2012, 04:48:57 AM
However, it's worth keeping in mind that we don't know if Weyland-Yutani made Ash or not. Building robots might be something they got out of, by that time. I'd say we also don't know if they made the Bishops, but the quote in 'Alien 3', where Bishop mentioned all data going back to the company's network, implied they might have. We don't know the background of that, though - Bishop might simply have been aware of it happening with other equipment, as opposed to being responsible for facilitating it.
It's not indicated in the film, but I always assumed the situation with Ash going peculiar was caused by some kind of a conflict in his programming more than anything. Much like HAL in 2001.
Ash seems fine until Ripley smacks him around. After that we see white fluid leaking indicating he is damaged, you also get a nice subtle performance by Holm with flickering eyes, etc. when he ponders what to do with Ripley after knocking her out.
I'd say Alien clearly shows Ash is following his programming fine then Ripley breaks some of the inner workings inside his head when she unexpectedly erupts and bashes him around. After that he goes wonky in how he operates.
Remember his programming the whole time was to protect the Alien. Clearly at some point that might mean getting rid of any crew who oppose him and clearly he was more than willing to do so. He just went "funny" in how he went about things because his functioning was impaired due to damage.
"David, what makes you sad?"
Camera close up of David´s face.
"...War ...
... Poverty ...
... Cruelty ..."
Camera closer to David´s face.
"... Unnecessary violence"
It looks like the video wants to highlight this nuance regarding violence. I wonder what David could be programmed in each moment to understand as necessary or not ...
I think it's a given that Ash was somewhat unique, meaning not coming from a mass production assembly line like David or Bishop. Ash was essentially an infiltrator android, designed and programmed to 'disguise' himself as a real human being.
However, Ashs 'chassis' if you want to call it that, could be from the standard mold. But his physical appearance and mission agenda clearly wasn't.
Quote from: EGM1966 on Apr 21, 2012, 10:09:18 AMAsh seems fine until Ripley smacks him around. After that we see white fluid leaking indicating he is damaged, you also get a nice subtle performance by Holm with flickering eyes, etc. when he ponders what to do with Ripley after knocking her out.
It certainly could come across that way, but she barely 'smacks him around' IMO. She just pushes him up against a wall. I would hazard that it's more what OpenMaw said; that he comes across a situation that he is not prepared to deal with, ie. being found out. His response to this is purely instinctive from that point on.
Quote from: Eva on Apr 21, 2012, 04:03:59 PM
I think it's a given that Ash was somewhat unique, meaning not coming from a mass production assembly line like David or Bishop.
Burke and Bishop stated otherwise.
At the same time, I think Ash's face was probably specific (not all A/2s looked like Ian Holm, basically). It would be a lot harder to fool the Nostromo's crew otherwise.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Apr 22, 2012, 05:06:56 AM
At the same time, I think Ash's face was probably specific (not all A/2s looked like Ian Holm, basically). It would be a lot harder to fool the Nostromo's crew otherwise.
Unless it was new or a prototype version.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Apr 22, 2012, 12:00:56 AM
It certainly could come across that way, but she barely 'smacks him around' IMO. She just pushes him up against a wall. I would hazard that it's more what OpenMaw said; that he comes across a situation that he is not prepared to deal with, ie. being found out. His response to this is purely instinctive from that point on.
Yes sir, totally concur.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Apr 22, 2012, 12:00:56 AM
It certainly could come across that way, but she barely 'smacks him around' IMO. She just pushes him up against a wall. I would hazard that it's more what OpenMaw said; that he comes across a situation that he is not prepared to deal with, ie. being found out. His response to this is purely instinctive from that point on.
Yeah see, I'd have a hard time buying that these androids can be cut in half, and have their heads knocked off, and still be in some fashion functional, and yet just a bump to the head is all it would take to send them into a homicidal incident.
Especially when you consider that there was nothing in Ashes orders stating he should try to make type vicariously with a magazine to Ripley's face. A machine, even one that's bugging out, is going to try to stay as close to programming. Deal with the crew by killing them means. Snap their necks, liquefy their hearts with a punch to the chest. Ash clearly has some immense strength given what we see of him in the fight with Parkar.
Still. I think David really is shaping up to be one of the more interesting film characters I've seen in any sort of film for quite some time. If he's done properly within the film he could rival many other android characters.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Apr 22, 2012, 04:44:08 PM
Yeah see, I'd have a hard time buying that these androids can be cut in half, and have their heads knocked off, and still be in some fashion functional, and yet just a bump to the head is all it would take to send them into a homicidal incident.
Why?
Humans can survive all sorts of things, but damage something critical and they can act very weird. It doesn't take a huge amount of force, depending on what you're trying to do.
I've got an MP3 player which can survive being run over by a vehicle, but I'm sure that if I accidentally harmed it in some other way it wouldn't perform fabulously. :)
We have no way to know what Ash's structural limits were or how the processors were protected. Or, for that matter, if it had an existing error which was being aggravated.
I've always said that the method by which it attempted to kill Ripley signified something was very wrong. It's horridly inefficient. But it's always seemed like the intention was to show that Ripley's actions led to some sort of cognitive errors. Someone with more time than I can try and see if there are any quotes or anything on the various director commentaries to verify this aspect. :)
Don't forget, either, that Ash was acting apparently fine after decapitation. It seemed to be more of a situational thing.
My only gripings with this movie thus far are related to the technology of the Space Jockey who are supposed to be millions of years old.
First, i wonder how exactly such an advanced races do not have better protection of the access to their technology from intruders. This remind me of the alike of Stargate where humans were are able to do whatever they want in Goauld ship without being detected.
Second, i wonder how come a human ship seems able to damage a ship of this race to the point that this ship has no other choice than to crash. Is this race unable to build ships with protective shield or an completely indestructible, compared to human weapons or means, hull ?
I have alway find disapointing the inability of an ancient space faring race to have significant protection agaisnt lesser races.Normally, such a race should have at least once met an agressive race with similar technology level. How then this race manage to defend itself agaisnt other advanced hostile races ?
Third, i also wonder how a member of this race is not able to protect itself against a face hugger ?
I mean such an advanced race should have several safeguards against creature as limited as face hugger.
This is quite disapointing for an ancient space travelling race.
Quote from: timiteh on Apr 25, 2012, 03:00:11 PM
My only gripings with this movie thus far are related to the technology of the Space Jockey who are supposed to be millions of years old.
First, i wonder how exactly such an advanced races do not have better protection of the access to their technology from intruders. This remind me of the alike of Stargate where humans were are able to do whatever they want in Goauld ship without being detected.
Second, i wonder how come a human ship seems able to damage a ship of this race to the point that this ship has no other choice than to crash. Is this race unable to build ships with protective shield or an completely indestructible, compared to human weapons or means, hull ?
I have alway find disapointing the inability of an ancient space faring race to have significant protection agaisnt lesser races.Normally, such a race should have at least once met an agressive race with similar technology level. How then this race manage to defend itself agaisnt other advanced hostile races ?
Third, i also wonder how a member of this race is not able to protect itself against a face hugger ?
I mean such an advanced race should have several safeguards against creature as limited as face hugger.
This is quite disapointing for an ancient space travelling race.
Agreed...
If you take away the idea from Independence Day that we would be able to "hack" and alien computer system and infect it with a virus... which seems completely implausible, then they pretty much got the rest right in terms of us being completely unable to do much of anything except hide.
I'm not saying even an advanced race wouldn't be susceptible to attack, but not by ramming their ship... and it appears that the United States has more security for things they want to keep secret than the Jockey's...
Quote from: timiteh on Apr 25, 2012, 03:00:11 PM
First, i wonder how exactly such an advanced races do not have better protection of the access to their technology from intruders.
The place seems to have been dormant for a very long time. Things might have broken or simply corroded away. Also the possibility that, much like Egyptian tombs, once these powerful beings went to 'sleep', other species came along and plundered their facilities for anything particularly useful, meaning that, by the time human beings got there, much was stripped away.
QuoteSecond, i wonder how come a human ship seems able to damage a ship of this race to the point that this ship has no other choice than to crash. Is this race unable to build ships with protective shield or an completely indestructible, compared to human weapons or means, hull ?
1: Kinetic energy, especially between large objects, is
tremendous.
2: What makes you think energy shielding is possible in this franchise? Or even that, if it were, that whatever the Space Jockeys might have made would necessarily be
enough to protect against what happens in this?
3: There is also the very real possibility that, since they've been in some sort of hibernation for a massively long time, a lot of their systems might not even have survived in a functional state.
4: We have no idea at what
stage of technological development they were in before going in stasis. It's very possible that they might have completely missed certain areas of technology which we didn't and vice versa. For instance, what if we had mass produced the jet engine in the 1920s/1930s, when it was discovered? Our present world might have been very different! There's a science-fiction story which deals with this. I forget the title, but it's basically an alien invasion story and the hostile visitors are eventually thwarted and destroyed by the deployment of armoured tanks: In their development, they never came up with the concept of them. Just because you can build spaceships and lasers doesn't mean you came up with spears or guns. :)
5: What 'they' found hugely powerful might not be the same to us. An example of this is the old thing you often find in science-fiction, where an alien species is shown to be superior because they have organic ships. The actual truth being that organic ships would be ridiculously easy to beat and vulnerable to all kinds of things the 'normal' ones are not!
Quote from: timiteh on Apr 25, 2012, 03:00:11 PM
My only gripings with this movie thus far are related to the technology of the Space Jockey who are supposed to be millions of years old.
First, i wonder how exactly such an advanced races do not have better protection of the access to their technology from intruders. This remind me of the alike of Stargate where humans were are able to do whatever they want in Goauld ship without being detected.
Second, i wonder how come a human ship seems able to damage a ship of this race to the point that this ship has no other choice than to crash. Is this race unable to build ships with protective shield or an completely indestructible, compared to human weapons or means, hull ?
I have alway find disapointing the inability of an ancient space faring race to have significant protection agaisnt lesser races.Normally, such a race should have at least once met an agressive race with similar technology level. How then this race manage to defend itself agaisnt other advanced hostile races ?
Third, i also wonder how a member of this race is not able to protect itself against a face hugger ?
I mean such an advanced race should have several safeguards against creature as limited as face hugger.
This is quite disapointing for an ancient space travelling race.
mmmm....good points
i'll have to ignore all this when I finally get to watch it
They said the Titanic was unsinkable...
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 22, 2012, 05:04:34 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Apr 22, 2012, 04:44:08 PM
Yeah see, I'd have a hard time buying that these androids can be cut in half, and have their heads knocked off, and still be in some fashion functional, and yet just a bump to the head is all it would take to send them into a homicidal incident.
Why?
Humans can survive all sorts of things, but damage something critical and they can act very weird. It doesn't take a huge amount of force, depending on what you're trying to do.
I've got an MP3 player which can survive being run over by a vehicle, but I'm sure that if I accidentally harmed it in some other way it wouldn't perform fabulously. :)
We have no way to know what Ash's structural limits were or how the processors were protected. Or, for that matter, if it had an existing error which was being aggravated.
I've always said that the method by which it attempted to kill Ripley signified something was very wrong. It's horridly inefficient. But it's always seemed like the intention was to show that Ripley's actions led to some sort of cognitive errors. Someone with more time than I can try and see if there are any quotes or anything on the various director commentaries to verify this aspect. :)
Don't forget, either, that Ash was acting apparently fine after decapitation. It seemed to be more of a situational thing.
He was bumped. Literally bumped, and he flipped his shit. No. It doesn't make sense that it would cause enough damage.
Yeah, humans can take damage, we can lose a limb or be stabbed and survive (provided the injury is treated of course) but on the same level as a synthetic? Not even... and WE can sustain a far harder blow to the head than Ash did without going into a coma or nuts. Ash was little pushed a little. That's it. It wasn't like Ripley took a bad to his freaking head for God's sake. You
know it doesn't add up.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 22, 2012, 05:00:26 AM
Quote from: Eva on Apr 21, 2012, 04:03:59 PM
I think it's a given that Ash was somewhat unique, meaning not coming from a mass production assembly line like David or Bishop.
Burke and Bishop stated otherwise.
Well, I
did write in my comment, that Ashs chassis could be the standard android, but his physical appearance would have to be quite unique. Otherwise, the crew would have recognized him as an android. It makes very little sense to design an android meant to pose as a unique human being, if there's a million other androids looking exactly the same. ;)
Quote from: Eva on Apr 25, 2012, 05:31:56 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 22, 2012, 05:00:26 AM
Quote from: Eva on Apr 21, 2012, 04:03:59 PM
I think it's a given that Ash was somewhat unique, meaning not coming from a mass production assembly line like David or Bishop.
Burke and Bishop stated otherwise.
Well, I did write in my comment, that Ashs chassis could be the standard android, but his physical appearance would have to be quite unique. Otherwise, the crew would have recognized him as an android. It makes very little sense to design an android meant to pose as a unique human being, if there's a million other androids looking exactly the same. ;)
Eva. That stands to reason. The whole 'special mission' would have been no secret if they stuck an android on board at the last minute. Every suggestion from Ash would have been met with suspension from the word go.
Burke was 'white washing' and speaking in generalizations about the events of the Nostromo. Bishop only concurs that the generation of androids from that era (57 years back) were a bit twitchy. Ashes violence wasn't a product of his malfunctioning. His malfunctioning was a product of his violence. You could pretty plainly see that he was having trouble computing how to effectively kill Ripley. It was like watching a very old person with Alzheimer's disease trying to figure out what to so with once familiar cutlery.
It wasn't until he took that blow to the back of the head from Parker that he went really bonkers.
"Not sure if serious"
https://twitter.com/#!/PrometheusMovie/status/195205750803529728
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This is deep ::)
Not sure if this is real
There is something terribly wrong with David 8. The corporation is not disclosing the truth. I worked on the project with others who have disappeared or were terminated.
It's important that they be stopped. I don't know how much longer I can access this terminal, but the public must know the danger that will be unleashed.
http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/3982 (http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/3982)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FO6SDJ.jpg&hash=e8b1b9c0087f978085216965c7c16aa7e9887a43)
there's something weird about trying to portray a company supposed to be a distant, ominous and big-brotherish using a social media.
I really hope they don't take David down the path of villainy. He's such an interesting character so far, that will be such a downer.
Sorry to bump this, but I have too. I stayed away from spoilers and stuff and now that I have seen Prometheus twice , I'v been watching these virals. This is my favorite one. Ridley Nailed this character imo. I really hope to see all of these on Blu ray. The ted Talk was also great, but I here there is a longer 5 or 6 minute cut of that?
Quote from: bleau on Jun 14, 2012, 07:50:05 AM
Sorry to bump this, but I have too. I stayed away from spoilers and stuff and now that I have seen Prometheus twice , I'v been watching these virals. This is my favorite one. Ridley Nailed this character imo. I really hope to see all of these on Blu ray. The ted Talk was also great, but I here there is a longer 5 or 6 minute cut of that?
Its rumored that a longer cut exists, and that it may be on the Blu Ray.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Apr 29, 2012, 02:36:12 AM
I really hope they don't take David down the path of villainy. He's such an interesting character so far, that will be such a downer.
really, well David's role basicly in the movie is this
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkVodv.gif&hash=1a706bb0ca5a5abae60f83dfb357825bd8bb8c33)
Spoiler
:D
:laugh: that's true.