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Posted by Xenomrph
 - Aug 18, 2018, 04:29:46 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 18, 2018, 11:35:37 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 18, 2018, 10:27:45 AM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 18, 2018, 10:08:45 AM
Game mechanics are usually not canon because its nothing to do with story or lore,
It's worth pointing out that AvP:E has a bestiary section where it literally goes out of its way to take gameplay mechanics and translate them into story/lore.

Yes and I was grateful for that, as they took something that is needed to fill a role and gave it some information. Unlike A:CM where the castes come out of nowhere and there really is nothing to explain them.
That's why I've got no problem accepting AvP:E's "game mechanic" stuff as "canon". :P

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 18, 2018, 02:50:56 PM
It's only because Frostbite and Battlefield did such long scale destructible scenery that I thought it might be realistic in an Alien game now. I think the fan-game Alien: Hope for the Future is actually experimenting with that.
It might be doable via Red Faction: Guerilla's "GeoMod" engine - that game had a weapon called the Nano Rifle that would literally dissolve chunks of buildings.

The biggest problem I could see with real-time acid destruction is that on a large enough scale, it could make the game unwinnable if the player dissolves too much of the environment.
Perhaps something more akin to Rainbow Six: Siege, where bullets can pierce walls and floors - it's more of a procedurally-generated cosmetic thing. Treat Alien acid blood drops like physical objects such as bullets or grenade shrapnel, with similar effects on the environment.
Posted by Corporal Hicks
 - Aug 18, 2018, 02:50:56 PM
It's only because Frostbite and Battlefield did such long scale destructible scenery that I thought it might be realistic in an Alien game now. I think the fan-game Alien: Hope for the Future is actually experimenting with that.
Posted by The Old One
 - Aug 18, 2018, 02:21:26 PM
You'll be waiting a while, real time destruction of the environment that compromises the player's navigation;
especially on a spaceship would be incredibly resource heavy.
Posted by Corporal Hicks
 - Aug 18, 2018, 02:05:31 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 18, 2018, 11:35:37 AM
Yes and I was grateful for that, as they took something that is needed to fill a role and gave it some information. Unlike A:CM where the castes come out of nowhere and there really is nothing to explain them.

If I remember rightly, in the pre-release coverage, it was said to be due to radiation fallout from the processor going up.

Quote from: SM on Aug 18, 2018, 11:20:15 AM
QuoteSometimes its not even strategy or multiplayer games that get this, its a single player story driven games that have lore altering mechanics for the sake of gameplay as well. Isolation springs to mind. The Alien is not invincible as we know it can be killed, but the game makes it so because the game is a run and hide type of horror and it needs a threat that you cannot face.

Same with shooting dozens of Aliens in the Sulaco hangar - the bottom of the ship - with no effect on the hull.

I really hope to see an Alien game where that is an actual mechanic.
Posted by Local Trouble
 - Aug 18, 2018, 11:56:57 AM
So the queen was presumably not standing over one of those areas when she bled on the floor.
Posted by SM
 - Aug 18, 2018, 11:54:06 AM
All you need is a few drops over the drop station or loading lock and say goodbye to the atmosphere.
Posted by Local Trouble
 - Aug 18, 2018, 11:45:16 AM
All I'm saying is that there was more between the hangar floor and outer space than a few inches of metal.
Posted by The Cruentus
 - Aug 18, 2018, 11:43:46 AM
Except we don't know if that metal is full or somewhat hollow, Newt was able to hide within the floors remember, so there may be tunnels, maintence vents. Besides even if the metal was that thick, remember how many Aliens Winter and the team were killing in the hanger? One Alien corpse could melt through numerous floors, can you imagine what dozens of Alien corpses would do?
Posted by Local Trouble
 - Aug 18, 2018, 11:39:51 AM
IIRC, some sections of the hangar have several meters of metal between the floor and the outer hull.  We can see it when the dropship is lowered into the airlock prior to its launch.

Posted by The Cruentus
 - Aug 18, 2018, 11:35:37 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 18, 2018, 10:27:45 AM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 18, 2018, 10:08:45 AM
Game mechanics are usually not canon because its nothing to do with story or lore,
It's worth pointing out that AvP:E has a bestiary section where it literally goes out of its way to take gameplay mechanics and translate them into story/lore.

Yes and I was grateful for that, as they took something that is needed to fill a role and gave it some information. Unlike A:CM where the castes come out of nowhere and there really is nothing to explain them.


Quote from: SM on Aug 18, 2018, 11:20:15 AM
QuoteSometimes its not even strategy or multiplayer games that get this, its a single player story driven games that have lore altering mechanics for the sake of gameplay as well. Isolation springs to mind. The Alien is not invincible as we know it can be killed, but the game makes it so because the game is a run and hide type of horror and it needs a threat that you cannot face.

Same with shooting dozens of Aliens in the Sulaco hangar - the bottom of the ship - with no effect on the hull.

And the legendary guns that either should not be in the places they were found or were destroyed. Hick's shotgun for example.
Posted by SM
 - Aug 18, 2018, 11:20:15 AM
QuoteSometimes its not even strategy or multiplayer games that get this, its a single player story driven games that have lore altering mechanics for the sake of gameplay as well. Isolation springs to mind. The Alien is not invincible as we know it can be killed, but the game makes it so because the game is a run and hide type of horror and it needs a threat that you cannot face.

Same with shooting dozens of Aliens in the Sulaco hangar - the bottom of the ship - with no effect on the hull.
Posted by Xenomrph
 - Aug 18, 2018, 10:27:45 AM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 18, 2018, 10:08:45 AM
Game mechanics are usually not canon because its nothing to do with story or lore,
It's worth pointing out that AvP:E has a bestiary section where it literally goes out of its way to take gameplay mechanics and translate them into story/lore.
Posted by The Cruentus
 - Aug 18, 2018, 10:08:45 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 18, 2018, 04:22:42 AM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 17, 2018, 09:18:00 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Aug 16, 2018, 12:16:06 PM
Even though the Praetorian caste system, purebreed and crossbreed from AVPE I accepted;

Nothing in AVP:E needs to be accepted because those were just game mechanics, not an actual canon life-cycle/evolution.
Gonna disagree there - I thought the additions in AvP:E were often clever and certainly interesting, and I've got no problem with them being added to "the canon". By your reasoning, you could handwave anything out of any source as "not actual canon" by saying "oh but it's just a movie", "oh the studio mandated that the book include [whatever]", or something similar. The author is dead, and his game mechanics died with him - the behind the scenes "reason" why something is present doesn't change the fact that it's still present. :P

Feel free to disagree but I never said they weren't clever or interesting.  :P I just said they were game mechanics, which is true. Extinction is a strategy game and such games have "roles" that need filling, so necessitates adding and making up castes/classes to fill those roles. Game mechanics are usually not canon because its nothing to do with story or lore, its a mechanic, and since a film and canon comics contradicted the mechanics in that game, specifically the purebreed/transbeed thing, its said and done. However said film can't really count anymore since Covenant and Prometheus erased that continuity. Unless you count Alien 3 as well.

The reasoning is not the same, because "its a just a movie" is not the same as saying its game mechanics. A movie tells a story which may or may not be canon but its a story nonetheless, game mechanics is seperate from storytelling hence the term "gameplay and story segregation", and they are designed with the player and gameplay in mind, not the lore. It' is not a bad thing, games with class systems often do this, as its a way to make unique roles with unique abilities. Sometimes its not even strategy or multiplayer games that get this, its a single player story driven games that have lore altering mechanics for the sake of gameplay as well. Isolation springs to mind. The Alien is not invincible as we know it can be killed, but the game makes it so because the game is a run and hide type of horror and it needs a threat that you cannot face.

Posted by Xenomrph
 - Aug 18, 2018, 07:11:51 AM
I think that's a reasonable assessment. :)
Posted by The Old One
 - Aug 18, 2018, 05:30:07 AM
It doesn't go out the window, it just can or cannot be logically explained on a case by case basis.

Alien Isolation, Labyrinth and Paradise Lost; both have digitrade legs as a stylistic choice with no discernible explanation.
Alien Resurrection however by the very nature of it's ambiguous genetic process is open to interpretation.
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