We have just uploaded the 50th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy Podcast (right-click and save as to download)! Our latest episode sees regular podcast hosts Omegamorph, RidgeTop, Xenomorphine and I discuss Alien: Covenant in great detail!
Clocking in at just over 3 hours, our 50th episode is probably our longest and we go into Alien: Covenant in some depth. We discuss elements of the film that worked for us, elements that didn’t and provide our over all impressions. And I’m sure there’s still plenty more we could have talked about!
What did you think of our latest episode? Be sure to let us know down below! You can also listen to any of our previous episodes in the Podcast section under the News tab on the main menu. We hope you enjoy!
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This is the ultimate summing up of A:C!
Ridley and Fox thought the way to solve the problem was to react to the A5/creature issue as opposed to the latter and not surprisingly we ended up with a film that shared the same faults as Prometheus AND included a troped 3rd act which actually showed us what Ridley already knows the beast IS cooked.
Its quite clear to me that Ridley retains a rare gift in story telling through visuals but does not support or underpin those coups through strong organisational story telling or engaging consistent emotional journeying (the latter of which he hit bang on with the Martian).
I was particularly pleased to hear someone else recognise that in reducing Davids progression with Shaw to vagaries and a flat cynical psychopathy the only thing left for the follow up as regards David is how mad can a robot get.
David was a really interesting proposition, a robot who had been given the chance to test emotional responses, part of Sir Peter's legacy for his own son, so to reduce him to the curling moustachioed villain is a great shame and there was SO MUCH that Shaw could have contributed to that and much more than a lot of speculative drawings which have appeared post film. You could argue Michael was either over acting in regard to his emotional attachment to her, or as we have anything goes, to suit plot point convenience. I said it on the main site I contribute to episodic movies,like episodic television, great get is they build up audience loyalty and fascination by growing the characters in a way we can journey with them and each change of direction and experience means something which adds to our understanding and loyalty, with David nothing seems to mean anything which is made worse because certain elements of his arc from the Crossing to the Covenant are either missing or contradictory. This is really crucial because he is responsible for holding the narrative together and giving it weight. Apart from the troping because he does not survive such responsibility its why so many people describe the film as merely entertaining routine et etc.
As I tried to elaborate in the podcast, I cannot stand the empty "Lost" mystery, where the plot relies upon massive unexplained elements that are just hand-waved away as mystery, when really it's the writers not thinking things through. I seriously doubt that Ridley has "the answers." That kind of plot mystery may fit in more abstract and experimental original films but not in franchise films that have clearly set rules and expectations. Even though there are universe rules, that doesn't mean they can't be bent as they have effectively been before. They're simply the proper point to start from and explore different and original things from there.
We're all Alien fans and naturally, we'll all have our own preferences for the kinds of stories told in this universe. I had frustrations about Covenant that I felt the need to express, and it's totally fine if anyone loved the film or has counterpoints to what has been brought up. It's also OK to love something in spite of its flaws, as I do with the AVP films. And what some may consider flaws, others may consider elements to be praised. I feel in disagreements sometimes we have to hear from the other side and at least consider things before forming our own opinions fully. And like with Prometheus, I'm open to the movie growing on me. I did buy the art book and novelization, so I'm not out to forsake all things Alien: Covenant.
In any case, thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm glad some liked the podcast and I'm sorry to those who found it too negative.
Btw, the tagline on page one's poster is something like 'Despair's first cry'
I expected what we got. I hoped they would elevated it beyond what it was. I was resigned to what was in it. I left the movie feeling like "well, that was that".
I then entered into conversations with my daughters. They were extremely disappointed in it. As we talked and I thought more about what I saw, it occurred to me that I really didn't like what I saw and it kept coming apart more and more as we spoke on it.
I also have watched a crap ton of reviews, both positive and negative on the youtubes. I have also listened to about 4 different podcasts - 3 were negative and 1 was positive. Additionally, we have this cast, which I think is very thoughtful in its deconstruction. It's not simply a cacophony of " that sucked" here, It's well measured.
The problems keep rising to the top in the various casts and videos. Most of them aren't even aware of each other. So it's not a feeding frenzy. Several reviewers aren't even aware of this forum or others like it and they are coming to the same conclusions. It's these flaws that are getting in the way of the narrative of film and drawing the viewer out of it.
So, to be clear... I didn't go in planning to hate it. I wanted a good film. I don't think I got it.
To those that enjoyed it, I am sincerely glad you did. That's a great feeling to have when a film works for your or even when a film wins you over that you didn't expect to like. You should defiantly go see it again. Support it is you can. It needs it.
Hmm I rather read some book
Omega and Hicks have a few positives. Xenomorphine kept saying he enjoyed it but never really said anything positive lol. Ridgetop had nothing but criticism. Overall i would say it was about 90% negative. I wouldnt call it whining but i certainly disagreed with some of the criticism the reasoning behind it.
Generally from what i gathered hicks liked everything but the alien stuff. Omega seemed to enjoy the film but felt it shouldnt have been an alien film from the start and more its own thing. Xenomorphine and Ridgtop didnt really have any praise that i can recall lol.
I would say its worth a listening to though.
*edit* Im wrong, xenomorphine did really enjoy the backburster scene and tried to end the podcast with some positive stuff. Ridgtop really liked the score.
Nothing to be sorry for Hicks! i just wish there had been someone there to counter some of the criticism, or atleast talk about some of the good stuff. Ive been trying to be constructive with my counter arguments in this thread instead of just complaining about the podcast, i hope it doesnt come off as me being angry or whiny. Lord knows i have my own criticisms of the film.
I hate the idea of David being the sole creator. I wish Ridley had just stuck to the plan, the engineers creating them and David copying and making his own strain. But I do feel there is still wiggle room for it to change if/when there is a sequel. I dont like Lope getting instantly impregnated by a hugger, Orams hugging and bursting was fine with me though. I also felt that once Lope bursts on the covenant that the film moves to quickly in regard to finding and killing the alien. Also I wished they had used more practical on the alien itself. So there are a lot of valid criticisms that i agree with you guys on. But i just felt someone needed to argue for some of the merits of the film.
One thing i wanted to add about the behavior of the creature. I understand wanting the aliens behavior to not be like the ferocious tiger that it has become (i also wish for a return to the behavior of yhe creature in ALIEN). But its difficult to hold that against the film because thats largley the way the creature has been portrayed since the second film and throughout the EU. I would have thought that Scott, of all people, would have made something more disturbing out of that shower scene. That said, i really really loved the shot of the alien jumping down on that fella in davids lair and the shower headbite was wicked and nasty.
Anyway I look forward to your next episode and as always, thank you for all you do here at AvPGalaxy!
I definitely appreciated you trying to keep it balanced. There just wasn't a lot about the movie that didn't work for me. Not saying it doesn't have issues, though. I've just read/listened to so much critical reaction already that it was a little tricky to make it through another largely dissatisfied breakdown at the moment. I'll come back to it, I'm sure.
Still think you're the most worthwhile Alien podcast out there.
Macross would be f**king awesome with Aliens.
this would be much better as a stand-alone film. Craft better some of the dialogue & dynamics and it would be great. The ideas, visuals etc have a lot of merit. Just not in the right series and not cooked well enough
Prometheus likely started as an alien prequel but quickly changed into an original idea shrouded with Alien DNA. Maybe not original "original" but for today such a story is rare and far between and naturally, it did get messy. When people say that no one had an idea what to do with Shaw, or where they were going, that's nonsense. Paradise was the destination. However fox went hey hold on a second, where is the alien? They seriously wanted Scott to do something with it and we got Alien: Covenant. So yea it was shoehorned in there.
The Alien in Alien: Covenant is more a philosophical beast than a physical one.
While the majority of us actually enjoyed the film, there's still so much in the film that just doesn't work for us in spite of the enjoyment. And RidgeTop vehemently dislikes the film so naturally, he's going to talk about what he didn't like.
I try to ensure we remain fair in our criticisms and make sure we do also talk about things we like but the fact of the matter is, yeah, we're passionate about the series and we're being passionate about it. I'm glad some of you - even if you did like the film - still managed to enjoy the episode and thought we achieved fairness. Those of you who didn't, I'm sorry.
to be fair. .i suppose 3 hrs of non stop praise would'nt be much fun either. .
Now I just wish I can subscribe to the podcast on my phone, but it's not listed on the Google service.
Maybe you're approaching it from the wrong perspective.
Wait until we hear the director's commentary, I am sure Scott will explain what he was trying to achieve. I doubt it will change your opinion, as it seems you expected something totally different. But even if I had issues with the script, it wouldn't make me hate the film. All the Alien films have stupid dialogue and unrealistic scenarios, if you break it down. In fact I don't know what movies don't have stupid dialogue and character decisions.
And it's clear that many didn't. It's not nitpicking. The issues cited are fundamental flaws in the story and it's execution. This film doesn't not hold up under ANY scrutiny. It starts to fall apart when you think about it.
It's also not about a slavish devotion to the original films. I think most of us want new stories and are willing to accept them if the writers and the directors take the time and care to execute them intelligently and with respect for their audience. Also, there is a certain expectation of quality as it relates to films that have come before. It feels like these films are getting dumber and lazier on nearly every level each time they come out. That's not a good thing. There ought to be an internal pressure to elevate the material. I just don't know if there is with these, I don't feel it. I certainly don't feel it with respect to Scott.
Each Alien film is like a reboot, anyway. It's what has kept the franchise alive. Otherwise it would be like Friday the 13th. So those wanting a direct sequel to Prometheus...... would not work IMO. Scott said what he wanted with Prometheus, and decided to start over and focus on the best thing to come out of Prometheus, David the android (I know some might disagree). I also prefer not everything explained, as it's science FICTION (another form of fantasy), in which you have to use your imagination to fill in the gaps. Main thing is whether you enjoyed the film or not.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F14wvp6t.png&hash=519fb9592cdfc2e32fcf2d69a59cf20bb85a6ccd
Its early days I guess.
I buy the slavery thing, In the first scene David asks big questions only to be told to get Weyland some tea, you can see the spite in weylands expression and the utter disappointment in David. Look at the way Holloway treated him? A lot of people treated him in a similar way im sure.
David doesn't care that humans were on the list specifically, he cares because of the way they treat their own creations, destroying them apparently without a problem. David seems to want to be the creator now and he treats his creations with love.
Losing his marbles. Fair point. If it is the case. Perhaps Weyland programmed him to go bonkers once he is dead. Out of spiteful ness about his remark about him out living Weyland.
Getting his head ripped off. Good point can't dismiss that. He may be sitting with the same god complex that Weyland had.
I don't buy the slavery thing. Sorry. Weyland called him son in both movies or closest thing to a son he will ever have and when weyland says he lacks a sole David doesn't see this as negative IMHO . He is more like accepting in a reflecting and sad as "I know I don't have sole" I am lesser than you spiritually " kind of way. He knows he is product. But its not about slavery IMHO.
Why would he care about the engineers killing off mankind if he himself wants them dead?
Oh yes the pod cast also mentions that the novelisation has Walter checking out the planet before the crew sets down. So there was inspection proper inspection then.
How is being created for slavery not justification enough? Also an engineer ripped his head off when he meets one and on top of that they appear to have created a horrible xenovirus so that they could wipe out whole planets full of their creations in one go, does he need more justification to think they don't deserve to live? Engineers appear to be even more flawed than their experiments. Lets not forget that its made clear that David has been losing his marbles in the last 10 years on top of everything else.
Maybe you dont think its justification enough, but its enough for me.
What I want to know is where in the first scene does it show why David would want to kill humans and engineers and prevent them from spreading? Simply because he feels aggrieved after being treated like a slave by Weyland?
How is this justification for killing mankind and engineers?
Yeah I think that's pretty obvious throughout both films to be honest
What? Weyland makes it quite clear that for all of Davids perfection he's merely his slave. David, through is questioning, realizes he is superior to humans. So upon hearing Davids questions, Weyland lets David know that he's going to be his b*tch, David looks quite disappointed. I thought it was fairly clear in the film (and in prometheus as well) that David has disdain for his masters and feels superior to them. Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven. The point of that first scene is not that David and dad get to go find there makers some day.
I hope to God the "war of worlds " idea is only an idea.
Who knows. Maybe she was morphing very slowly from being exposed sexually to an infected Holloway . Perhaps she slowly went insane.
"hey, would you be cool if i kill you, dissect you, and harvest your organs for my disgusting experiments?"
and she was like "cool beans"
How does that's scene give you the impression that David hates mankind? Weyland tells him that one day together they will find out mankind isn't just some random accident of evolution. They would find out who is behind mans creation. It is noted in the podcast that David says that he has never seen such compassion from a human in shape of Shaw but then doesn't take that into consideration? And then kills off the engineers who he considers a superior species? Its obvious from Prometheus that David feels he is superior to man and that Holloway treated him like an asshole. But none of that equates to hating or destroying mankind . He even asks Holloway what he would be willing to do to get all his answers. In other words there is litearally no justification for doing what he did to the engineers and trying to prevent mankind from spreading through the universe. Except if you take the paradise engineers as lesser version of the engineers closer to humans who lacks the bio mechanical sophistication of the LV 223 engineers.
Basically the podcast says that what was setup in Prometheus has now been discarded for no good reason and it leaves the audiences cold. So it doesn't explore what was supposed to be explored.
At one point xenomorphine says we dont ever know why David hates humans but im pretty sure the very first scene with david and weyland reveals a lot of that. David is a slave who thinks he should be a god. But no one even attempts to give any of it a chance. Like i said earlier i gave the film a C+ but this podcast just contributes to the bum wrap this film is getting.
Ive always liked all the avpgalaxy podcasts but this one was a real disapppintment.
I agree with you, though I was able to listened through it though rolling my eyes every other minute, especially when Angry Joe was mentioned. Though I have to say at least they were cool and collected unlike other podcasts who went downtown and ripped it to shreds, and now are doing petitions for Blomkamp's cancelled project.
To quote a conversation I had with Sharp Sticks recently, "It's an Alien movie about Alien concept art, with real Alien concept art on the walls. What more could possibly make you happy?"
Almost finished listening and my thanks for the eligthening and ontelli gent discussion.
Don't worry, it's on my list to do! I'd like to give the newer releases an episode each (Life and Death will probably be one of our next non-Covenant related ones) before we go dive back into the older ones, but I definitely want to do episodes on the older comics, especially Destroying Angels.
Thanks for the responses, guys. I knew it was going to be a negative-ish one but I wanted to try and remain as fair as possible. I'm glad to see we're hitting that and you guys aren't just finding it a bitch fest.
Covenant was a 10/10 film for me which seems to make a bit weird, but most people seem to love the novels of "Out of the shadows" and "sea of sorrows" and "river of pain" which I thought were garbage. And I thought the rage war were good sci-fi novels but god awful Alien/predator stories, so I guess we're all different.
But still a great podcast, and I love listening to you guys so thanks for the effort you put in and you did bring up some valid points.
Hicks, just an idea, but you've mentioned on other podcasts aswell as this one about Aliens apocalypse the destroying angels, my favourite graphic novel along side salvation in the EU. Be awesome if you did a podcast on that one day. Even if dead orbit seems to be rapidly creeping into my top spot at the moment.
Cheers
I was ambivalent to this film initially. I knew what I was getting and I went anyway. I took my wife and two twenty year old daughters. The wife didn't like it and the daughters ripped it apart. I have talked it to death over the last few weeks and each time I discuss it, more and more things about it fall apart. It's not a good Alien Universe movie. It's barely an average general sci-fi movie.
For me the biggest problem with it is that each time FOX puts out a middling to poor Alien film, it drives the fans away. Fewer and fewer come back. I have heard several say they are done. I've never heard them say that before. I myself have considered throwing the towel. That's the real legacy of these last two films. That's why the box office is down.
I also found this to be pretty nuanced, objective and not nearly as negative as some people are being. I think this Podcast does still show how all over the place interpretations of the story, subtext and various mechanisms of the technical details are. As a long time fan, I have to say that A:C has managed to highlight exactly how fractured and confused the fanbase has come about what this franchise is about. It hurts my head a bit TBH. If anything upsets me about this movie it's how complicated it will be to get the next film right.
I know everyone says they want the next film to veer away from all this stuff but I have to disagree. I think narratively its most important now that they follow through in a way that ties up all questions raised in the past 2 films. No more ambiguity. Just follow through on the larger story EXPLICITLY.
Im not entirely convinced this is all going exactly where people are assuming it is, at least, not solely.
I think Scott is leaning towards the idea that David or better yet, something else will threaten Earth, and WY will want to obtain the Alien as a means to battle that thing.
i forget the guests name, the dude who ties everything together for fox and the alien series eu
yet he didn't seem to really know too much about the series and prometheus haha
They were honestly pretty tame compared to what other podcasts and Youtubers have been saying about the movie. I feel like the guys at AVP Galaxy are more constructive when it does come to criticism, and a hell of a lot more In depth, too. Others will tell you they hate something and the conversation never moves beyond that point, so it just sounds like a bitchfest.
This episode makes the Prometheus podcast seem like it was full of high praise.
Exactly.
Shite damn I wished they went with necronomicon 4 .
"The alien is part of something larger - a component of a weapons system "
Love this . Absolutely love it.