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Missing the Point – AvPGalaxy Podcast #35

We have just uploaded the 35th episode of the Alien vs. Predator Galaxy podcast for your listening pleasure. For this latest episode, the regular hosts – RidgeTop, Xenomorphine and myself – are joined by community gues, SiL, for a topic he suggested.

The 35th episode is dedicated to dissecting how the later films “missed the point” and suggesting a better way of approaching those specific points.

One of the points we discuss in the latest episode is why scenes like the belly-burster in AvP Requiem isn't as effective as it could be. Missing the Point - AvPGalaxy Podcast #35

One of the points we discuss in the latest episode is why scenes like the belly-burster in AvP Requiem isn’t as effective as it could be.

In this episode we discuss the mystery of Alien and why it worked so well when compared to Prometheus, we talk bigger and badder Predators and how to create an enemy that surpasses the older ones, when and how to properly use fan service and why the gore of Alien vs. Predator: Requiem isn’t as effective as in the previous films.

If you have any response to anything we discussed in this episode please let us know down below. We’d love to hear any of your thoughts regarding the topic.

You can also listen to any of our previous episodes in the Podcast section under the News tab on the main menu. We hope you enjoy!



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Comments: 21
  1. oduodu
    Sorry if I put someone on the spot but its the first time anywhere I actually heard anyone say that Lindelof actually was trying to be not overly "Lost" in his approach but Scott told him he should. That's a very important bit of info!

    Its just that you get a better sense of how the actual creative process was driven to be and by whom and makes more easier to understand what might happen in a sequel. Especially if the same happens in the sequel. It was also Ridley who instructed Max to de Giger the designs. Its simply for me a case of forming a better understanding. As Sil pointed out a lot of the star wars prequels being criticized was due to Lucas having too much power and so also Ridley.

    Thanks for pointing that out as it makes me understand much better where and how to look at it all.

    Yes alien could exist without the mystery of the Space Jockey but I maintain that it wouldn't have had the staying power that it had. Even if it was only a backdrop to the main story.

    It is my contention that Prometheus was trying to be over mysterious simply because that was what people were talking about all these years . Val wrote at some point that alien's staying power was due the SJ mystery. Perhaps that was what Scott intended to do by introducing many new mysteries but answering what the space jockey was but finding replacement mysteries that would keep people talking for many years. Too many mysteries perhaps and not expanded on. I mean the plot for me was definitely established in the movie itself  about one woman who desired to know why she was created and what our purpose was. People have more need of purpose in spite of all the technology that now exists. In Contact the character played by Matthew McConaughey asks/says the same thing. But does philosophical questions like this have a place in the alien franchise? Was that necessary? Wasn't that just a way of making it about us (the human race)?

    As for miss marketing the movie I feel that was simply to get bums on seats and it worked.
  2. Spooky799kil
    I think AVP should only stay in other media. Every way I look at it just seems like a failure when you apply the premise to film. Though I only fan of AVP through the AVP games, generally AVP has only been successful in outside media with Video games, comics, novels, and fans. And thats where it should be.
  3. Primordial
    Same here.  I damn well enjoy this film.  I understand it's shortcomings, and because I enjoy it so much, I find myself making excuses for it, and rationalizations.  Hopefully the next installment will justify some of that.

    We should continue to act this way, as long as we don't become some blind advocates who deny the undeniable.  :)

    We did try to avoid throwing shit on any one person -- or even the movies themselves -- because of how much of a collaborative effort the thing is. I think we even mention when talking about Prometheus that we aren't saying any one person f**ked up, just that the final product had a lot of serious issues.

    I actually find it hard to outright dislike Prometheus, too. Lots of faults, but still a good ride.

    We certainly did. We made a point of it, I believe.

    Yes, totally, especially given the fact that you guys mentionned it several times. I should have clarified that this wasn't specific about the podcast, sorry for that. I probably developped an allergy to the internet's Lindelof bashing :D. You know, I came out of the cinema so enchanted after the first viewing and so eager to see other people's reaction on forums, that the repetition of nasty comments about him brought me down a couple of times. I can get oversensitive to injustice. He has so many interesting things to say in interviews.
  4. Corporal Hicks
    Making the Space Jockey relatable to us, making him a giant humanoid, is missing the point, yes. I mean, even if they took the same route of it (SJ) being a suit, but with an unseen, bizarre lifeform inside, it would easily have our approval. As stated by David Levy in 'The Furious Gods', people working on 'Prometheus' not liking the Engineer as the SJ at first and then finally liking him is more of a diplomatic answer (well, that's what I like to think!)
    I prefer the SJ fused with the chair but how can this concept make its way in the movie, also knowing that Ridley has a penchant for pratical effects ?

    I prefer the old Lovecraftian sense behind the Space Jockey. Though I don't mind the Ancient Astronaut angle. I never have minded those panspermia angles. I don't think it needed to be related to humanity in such a straight forward way though as it loses that sense of wonder a bit, I think.

    Quote
    I often think that 'Prometheus' started extremely well with the giant saucer giving a sense a great intensity and 'alienness', especially when it verticalised, it was kind of a implicit promise that says ''hang on to your seat, we will do the rest'' but it was put on hold from that point...

    That being said, it is funny how I can find many weak points to this movie but still I do appreciate it very much.

    There's a lot in Prometheus I do really enjoy. But I just find the entire experience, especially the narrative, to be quite frustrating.

    We did try to avoid throwing shit on any one person -- or even the movies themselves -- because of how much of a collaborative effort the thing is. I think we even mention when talking about Prometheus that we aren't saying any one person f**ked up, just that the final product had a lot of serious issues.

    I actually find it hard to outright dislike Prometheus, too. Lots of faults, but still a good ride.

    We certainly did. We made a point of it, I believe.
  5. DarkXeno
    Prometheus just kinda expanded upon the universe. I didn't like it as much. The idea was cool, but the idea wasn't fleshed out enough for me to like the movie.
    Too many plot holes.
  6. SiL
    We did try to avoid throwing shit on any one person -- or even the movies themselves -- because of how much of a collaborative effort the thing is. I think we even mention when talking about Prometheus that we aren't saying any one person f**ked up, just that the final product had a lot of serious issues.

    I actually find it hard to outright dislike Prometheus, too. Lots of faults, but still a good ride.
  7. Perfect-Organism
    In defense of Lindelof labelled ''the mystery guy'' :

    This following internet defense speech I once read was pretty much on spot imo:
    ''... Lost was an ongoing show, not a finite series, and 22 episodes a year eat story ideas voraciously. By the time ABC gave their approval for the end game, the show had sprouted too many loose-ends-filler-ideas to resolve neatly…''.
    On a side note, his state of mind at the very beginning of 'Lost' was that it was going to be cancelled, nobody was going to watch it, before he was told that 20 million people watched the season première, and had trouble to cope with it.

    Not giving answers to the audience while he is keeping them for himself is very different from him being absolutely clueless. If ever he thought that it was our job, not his, to solve mysteries he has thrown out, then I would be pissed off, but that didn't seem the case with 'Prometheus'.
    For those who listened to DL's audio commentary, you can maybe remember this part : ''...I think we have some cool ideas as to exactly what the Engineers were up to…''. At least there were seeds of enlightenment in reserve back then.


    About missing the point
    :

    Making the Space Jockey relatable to us, making him a giant humanoid, is missing the point, yes. I mean, even if they took the same route of it (SJ) being a suit, but with an unseen, bizarre lifeform inside, it would easily have our approval. As stated by David Levy in 'The Furious Gods', people working on 'Prometheus' not liking the Engineer as the SJ at first and then finally liking him is more of a diplomatic answer (well, that's what I like to think!)
    I prefer the SJ fused with the chair but how can this concept make its way in the movie, also knowing that Ridley has a penchant for pratical effects ?

    I often think that 'Prometheus' started extremely well with the giant saucer giving a sense a great intensity and 'alienness', especially when it verticalised, it was kind of a implicit promise that says ''hang on to your seat, we will do the rest'' but it was put on hold from that point...

    That being said, it is funny how I can find many weak points to this movie but still I do appreciate it very much.

    Same here.  I damn well enjoy this film.  I understand it's shortcomings, and because I enjoy it so much, I find myself making excuses for it, and rationalizations.  Hopefully the next installment will justify some of that.
  8. Primordial
    In defense of Lindelof labelled ''the mystery guy'' :

    This following internet defense speech I once read was pretty much on spot imo:
    ''... Lost was an ongoing show, not a finite series, and 22 episodes a year eat story ideas voraciously. By the time ABC gave their approval for the end game, the show had sprouted too many loose-ends-filler-ideas to resolve neatly…''.
    On a side note, his state of mind at the very beginning of 'Lost' was that it was going to be cancelled, nobody was going to watch it, before he was told that 20 million people watched the season première, and had trouble to cope with it.

    Not giving answers to the audience while he is keeping them for himself is very different from him being absolutely clueless. If ever he thought that it was our job, not his, to solve mysteries he has thrown out, then I would be pissed off, but that didn't seem the case with 'Prometheus'.
    For those who listened to DL's audio commentary, you can maybe remember this part : ''...I think we have some cool ideas as to exactly what the Engineers were up to…''. At least there were seeds of enlightenment in reserve back then.


    About missing the point 
    :

    Making the Space Jockey relatable to us, making him a giant humanoid, is missing the point, yes. I mean, even if they took the same route of it (SJ) being a suit, but with an unseen, bizarre lifeform inside, it would easily have our approval. As stated by David Levy in 'The Furious Gods', people working on 'Prometheus' not liking the Engineer as the SJ at first and then finally liking him is more of a diplomatic answer (well, that's what I like to think!)
    I prefer the SJ fused with the chair but how can this concept make its way in the movie, also knowing that Ridley has a penchant for pratical effects ?

    I often think that 'Prometheus' started extremely well with the giant saucer giving a sense a great intensity and 'alienness', especially when it verticalised, it was kind of a implicit promise that says ''hang on to your seat, we will do the rest'' but it was put on hold from that point...

    That being said, it is funny how I can find many weak points to this movie but still I do appreciate it very much.
  9. LordCassusSnow
    Its the director who has the final say in the end. Prometheus was ridleys baby and the final result is his responsibility. Lindeloff was never to blame. If you asked him what he thought about ridleys decision making during production, he'd probably Hudson us with an," Hey man, i only work here."

    That aside, have you guys ever considered this; Avp was met with horrible reception not for its story, but greatly due to the fact the movie was PG13( and a few other minor things). Then we get an R rated Avp, literally with the R right in the title(though were supposed to believe it stands for requiem?) because fox wanted to make up for the gore we were supposed to get in the last movie. So now we have another Avp movie that sucked because of its R rating and shit story. Now consider this; Prometheus sucked because we didnt get any aliens up until the end. Now the next movie is supposedly going to be filled with them. Am i alone or does anyone else see a pattern?
  10. oduodu
    Damn finally!

    Ridgetop

    You beauty


    You say Lindelof was actually asking Ridley if he should have pulled a "Lost" on Prometheus when rewriting Spaihts script. And then Ridley said he should.

    So Ridley is to blame for the over "indeloffed" nature of the movie.

    Would be interesting to see what Lindelof would have done if he just went with what wanted to do initially.

    There are many other things that will comment on later

    Thanks all! Some really good stuff in there.
  11. Perfect-Organism
    Looking forward to listening to this.  All valid topics.  Not sure I agree with the idea that the mystery of the Alien worked in Alien but not in Prometheus, but I look forward to learning about your reasoning.
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