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AvPGalaxy Podcast #27 – Fire and Stone

I have just uploaded the 27th episode of the AvPGalaxy Podcast. This month RidgeTop, Xenomorphine and I are talking about Fire and Stone, the massive crossover comic event from Dark Horse. Fire and Stone marked Dark Horse’s return to Aliens/vs/Predator comics since the last relaunch in 2010  and the first release of a Prometheus related story.

We talk the good, the bad and the ugly. We discuss the influence Prometheus had the first major comic release since the film was released, a return to form for gorgeous Aliens/vs/Predator comics and the downright strangeness that is Elden and the Accelerant and more.

190515_03 AvPGalaxy Podcast #27 - Fire and Stone

The Fire and Stone series is influenced heavily by Prometheus and plays upon the mutations brought on by the “black goo”.

Unfortunately we experienced a number of difficulties whilst recording this episode (lost audio, I was ill when we re-recorded) and some issues with Skype so this episode has been a bit of a trouble child.

What did you think of Fire and Stone? Did you agree or disagree with anything we discussed or think we missed out anything? Please let us know in the comments below. If you haven’t listened to any of our podcast before we sure to head on over to the podcast page and check out any of our previous 27 episode.



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  1. TheBATMAN
    The larger size print book for River of Pain refers to Russell as Bradford throughout, whilst the standard size paperback calls him Russell throughout. He is first introduced as Derek Russell in chapter 7.
  2. Corporal Hicks
    I forgot to flick through it - too busy with The Martian, Battlefield Hardline and Star Trek Attack Wing at the minute - but I'm certain he is in the book before that event. If I remember I'll flick through it tonight before I head off out. 
  3. SM
    Quote
    I believe Russell is introduced well before that. In a meeting between all the heads. I haven't read the book since the first time so I'm not 100%. I'll have to have a flick through if I get chance.

    Anne notices Dione, Cale and Bradford/ Russell 'conspiring' on page 227.  About 2 and half hours later, she notices that they've disappeared.  Can't find a mention before that.

    Maybe they caleld Derrick Russell 'Bradford' due to the fact that Russ Jorden is called Russell a few times in the first half, and weren't overly aware of the Fire & Stone storyline yet?  But then, there are two different characters called Nguyen..
  4. Corporal Hicks
    Quote
    Do you remember if he is introduced correctly during the meeting?

    I don't have the book in front of me, but it's obvious it's meant to be the same person.  Anne wonders about the Onager, then notices the other three talking in the corner and she wonders if they're thinking the same thing. She may even overhear them.  Can't remember.

    I believe Russell is introduced well before that. In a meeting between all the heads. I haven't read the book since the first time so I'm not 100%. I'll have to have a flick through if I get chance.

    Quote
    Quote
    If I remember rightly Fire and Stone has them leaving the colony a week before River of Pain has the shit hit the fan.

    River of Pain ends on June 26.
    Fire & Stone starts on July 3.

    Fair enough - got that the wrong way around.  :laugh: And nice, you've moved already?

    Not a 100% sure.  Maybe AVPGalaxy could interview him?  Easy to contact.

    http://www.denbeauvais.com/

    Maybe. I've got my plate pretty full at the minute - with stuff to do for the site and personal life - but it has been something I've intended to do for a while.

    https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/11953274_10200920064520488_6546604780339385418_n.jpg?oh=c4e400edb11258becd156fd113ecb02e&oe=563A93D4

    The big one.
  5. SM
    Quote
    Do you remember if he is introduced correctly during the meeting?

    I don't have the book in front of me, but it's obvious it's meant to be the same person.  Anne wonders about the Onager, then notices the other three talking in the corner and she wonders if they're thinking the same thing. She may even overhear them.  Can't remember.

    Quote
    If I remember rightly Fire and Stone has them leaving the colony a week before River of Pain has the shit hit the fan.

    River of Pain ends on June 26.
    Fire & Stone starts on July 3.
  6. Perfect-Organism
    Beauvais is actually fairly easily accessible.  I've communicated with him on potential independent projects in the past.  I think he has a great interest in the world of 3-D animation, which he is very good at.  The problem is that the market is super-saturated with people who are very good in this art.  I do not see any significant distinction between his work, and the work of other 3-D artists once we are talking about that high end animation.  In truth, his unique artistic sensibility tends to get washed out in 3-D animation because the medium is so "cold" with no room for interpretation.  When Den Beauvais was doing his airbrush work on Aliens, he was THE BEST because his sensibilities actually shined through.  I hope he recognizes how valuable comic book work has become these days and gives it another try.  He was miles above his peers.
  7. Corporal Hicks
    Yeah, it's later in the book after the outbreak, Anne is wondering about using the Onager and sees Dione, Cale and Russell/ Bradford talking in a corner.

    Do you remember if he is introduced correctly during the meeting?

    Mind you this about 8 days before the comics start.  It's hard to imagine a stack of people lasting that long considering the pacing of the book.  I assume continuity in timing and names didn't quite gel between the two.

    If I remember rightly Fire and Stone has them leaving the colony a week before River of Pain has the shit hit the fan.
  8. SM
    Yeah, it's later in the book after the outbreak, Anne is wondering about using the Onager and sees Dione, Cale and Russell/ Bradford talking in a corner.

    Mind you this about 8 days before the comics start.  It's hard to imagine a stack of people lasting that long considering the pacing of the book.  I assume continuity in timing and names didn't quite gel between the two.
  9. SM
    Does it need a spoiler warning?
    Also, you call Derrick Russell, Russell Derrick at one point.  And Chris Golden erred in River of Pain by calling him Derrick Bradford.
  10. Engineer
    Not that different to Alien then.  The storm on LV-426 abates at sunrise.
    The really interesting part about this is it's probably not that much of a stretch from reality either. The more I read about exoplanets and such, the more and more common things like this appear to be in the real 'world.' Storms created during the day when the host star's heat causes violent convection currents which dissipate during the night-phase as the atmosphere cools back down again. It seems most common with gas giants, but then again, those are the easiest to see at this time; could be just as common on smaller, rocky celestial bodies too, and we just haven't been able to observe it yet...
  11. The Eighth Passenger
    Another cool thing about that idea is that it sort of reinforces the idea that the storm that kicks up shortly after the Prometheus crew enters the pyramid wasn't just random, but rather a reaction to their presence. The idea of the Engineers bio-mechanically terraforming the planet into one massive life form definitely helps explain what the Engineer in Fire and Stone was doing: tending the garden.

    But there are storms visible from orbit long before they land, Janek comments on the rough weather during the landing, nothing when they set down, one storm overnight, then nothing for the rest of the day; and nothing again a week later when Shaw and David leave.

    It was originally intended that the completely natural storm would follow the dawn/dusk terminator line. Similar to what we saw on Crematoria in Chronicles of Riddick.
  12. Ultramorph
    Also, if I remember correctly, we see Elden merge with the wall of the mountain.  He takes the same pose as the mural in the film.  Perhaps that mural was not really a mural but something along the lines of an Alien who happened to press up against the wall?

    That was definitely one of my favorite parts of Omega because it raises so many questions about what was going on and what it means for the mural in the film.

    Expanding upon the idea that organisms are able to turn into rock formations, perhaps the big human head sculpture that we see inside the complex is not at all a sculpture but rather an actual Engineer that sacrificed himself and grew into the complex, literally becoming the pyramid.  The idea of self-sacrifice seems to be a part of the engineer mythos..

    Another idea: the skull on the pyramid is at the end of an elongated, pointy head, a lot like Elden's, and the skull faces are pretty similar. Just raises more interesting possibilities about what Elden was becoming, and if there had been ones like him before.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bwJwcQN99jw/T5Kja3JnBaI/AAAAAAAABWI/9eMW0dA_m3U/s400/pyramid+mound.png
    http://comicbastards.com/wp-content/uploads/AVP-Fire-and-Stone-4-1.14.15.png
  13. Perfect-Organism
    Expanding upon the idea that organisms are able to turn into rock formations, perhaps the big human head sculpture that we see inside the complex is not at all a sculpture but rather an actual Engineer that sacrificed himself and grew into the complex, literally becoming the pyramid.  The idea of self-sacrifice seems to be a part of the engineer mythos..

    Also, if I remember correctly, we see Elden merge with the wall of the mountain.  He takes the same pose as the mural in the film.  Perhaps that mural was not really a mural but something along the lines of an Alien who happened to press up against the wall?

    I just re-read the Aliens series.  It really helps when you're not reading things by jumping from series to series.  It was actually a very enjoyable series.  I realized what it was that struck me as "lazy" when it came to the artwork.  Many of the panels just show an image of the character and the background is not inked in at all.  If this was a black and white book it would look totally incomplete.  But maybe that was the intention so that the colorist's paint-work could shine.  So it's not lazy at all.  In truth, the colorist is quite adept at what he is doing.  The painting is quite rich.  I'm still not a big fan of the palette used, but it was done very well.  I think this book would have benefitted from having a black background outside the panels instead of white.  That was what really helped make Den Beauvais' art pop out.
  14. SM
    But there are storms visible from orbit long before they land, Janek comments on the rough weather during the landing, nothing when they set down, one storm overnight, then nothing for the rest of the day; and nothing again a week later when Shaw and David leave.
  15. Ultramorph
    Prometheus: The Complete Fire and Stone comes out on October 21st. Dark Horse has a list price of $49.99, but Amazon has it for $35 with a release date of November 5th.
    http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/25-651/Prometheus-The-Complete-Fire-and-Stone-HC
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1616557729?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00

    Also, as a little side note, I'd be curios to find out if Titan's upcoming "rage war" series will reference or tie in with Fire and Stone! I wouldn't be that surprised given that fox has put more effort into keeping the stories more cohesive lately.
    I'm hoping for some small references, as well, or maybe a pit stop on LV-223 at some point.

    Perhaps the mounds (with human heads on top no less) found on LV-223 which house the juggernauts were living things which grew the juggernauts?
    Another cool thing about that idea is that it sort of reinforces the idea that the storm that kicks up shortly after the Prometheus crew enters the pyramid wasn't just random, but rather a reaction to their presence. The idea of the Engineers bio-mechanically terraforming the planet into one massive life form definitely helps explain what the Engineer in Fire and Stone was doing: tending the garden.
  16. Engineer
    Thanks for the podcast guys! I haven't read fire and stone yet, but I didn't care too much about the potential spoilers during the podcast... Otherwise I wouldn't have listened to it yet. :-)

    But now, after listening, I have one very BIG burning question/favor to ask:

    One of the reasons I haven't picked up and read fire and stone yet was because I was waiting for the inevitable graphic novel to collect each issue into one big book, and I perked up when you guys mentioned that it's on the way... Does anyone know exactly when that's releasing? Or have any idea about the cost? I apologize if the release date was mentioned in the podcast, I might have missed that...

    Also, as a little side note, I'd be curios to find out if Titan's upcoming "rage war" series will reference or tie in with Fire and Stone! I wouldn't be that surprised given that fox has put more effort into keeping the stories more cohesive lately.
  17. Perfect-Organism
    The "Deacon turns into a mountain" motif is either one of the best sci-fi twists in years or the worst.  After thinking about it, I would suggest that a portion of the Engineers genetic skills is also geared towards "architecture".  In much the same way as Engineers grow their ships (as has been the classical understanding) perhaps the deacon was building a structure of sorts.  However, the Deacon was just random DNA with no proper architectural intent (a building or a spaceship) so it just grew a random mountain.  That's the only explanation I could think of and it has some interesting implications.  Perhaps the mounds (with human heads on top no less) found on LV-223 which house the juggernauts were living things which grew the juggernauts?
  18. janenad
    I always enjoy these podcasts, keep em up.  :)
    I also liked these comics, but if we exclude the Prometheus one, all the others have shown the xenos as incompetent! :'( The colonists surviving so long in Aliens:FaS not to mention stabbing a xeno with a makeshift spear, in AVP:FaS not a single predator was killed or even heavily injured by a xeno, in Predator:FaS we see piles of hundreds of xenos that are obviously no threat to the Engineer who doesn't even have his gun from Prometheus:FaS anymore and the Omega had a fat Queen who died after one head stab and doing almost no damage apart from a bit of her acid. At least the Prometheus comic showed them as deadly, mostly.

    For future comics, Dark Horse, please remember: aliens are not stupid fodder bugs! As simple as that. I liked Elden, though I understand why some others don't. The AVP comic was off, that needs to go in a new direction in the future as others have said already.
    I mostly enjoyed Predator:FaS and Prometheus:FaS.
  19. SM
    The first half dozen pages or so take place on LV-426.  Everything else happens on LV-223.  Which has changed significantly since Prometheus - so it stands to reason it'll look different.

    I don't think you're remembering correctly.

    The only thing that might be construed as "lazy" was, as I think Ridgetop pointed out, the same pose re-used on many of the Aliens.
  20. Perfect-Organism
    As I said, I haven't read this in a while, but if I remember correctly, a good portion of it takes place on LV-426.  In which case, go blue.  Even on LV-223, the basic color scheme in the Prometheus film was a cool grey with hints of a greenish yellow.  The Aliens series just failed to capture the vibe of any of the films for me.  Also, if I remember correctly, there were hardly any backgrounds drawn in.  That's just lazy.  But my memory may fail me.  I await the hardcover to do a good reread.

    I did like Prometheus the most.  I think those comics captured the look and feel of the film the most and even though I would consider myself as someone with an advanced understanding of the franchise, I feel that the casual reader who saw the film would appreciate the look and feel of the Prometheus comics.  The same can't be said for the Aliens comics.  Now 30 years did pass by mind you but still, it just doesn't capture the vibe.
  21. Perfect-Organism
    Thanks for the review guys.  I can't really disagree with what's been said.  I guess that I am ok with a lot of the "off-the-wall" stuff if we go with the multi-verse idea that has been bandied about so much lately.  But if this is canon, then that means there is a potential for a lot of this stuff on film, and I just don't see it translating well.  Elden is basically a super-villain right out of a comic book.  I can't go into detail now because I am not going to read these books again until the hardcover comes out.

    One key thing about the Aliens series that I am surprised nobody picked up on is the color scheme.  I mean if this is supposed to be basically a prequel to Aliens, and it is on location on Hadley's Hope, all the colors are totally off.  It was like the colorist never saw the film.  I found the whole vibe of the film was just missing.  Note to colorist:  Use more blue.  It's the James Cameron way.
  22. TheBATMAN
    Another fine effort. Agreed AVP was the weakest. Clearly someone was a Resident Evil fan as Elden looked very similat to the Type T-001 Tyrant and I believe some of the final survivors were a couple named Chris and Jill which was another reference.
  23. predxeno
    Love that they're doing a big hardcover. Will have to pick it up! It's released just before my birthday too.  ;D Buying singles is such a pain in the ass - does anyone have recommendations on storage for singles?

    I just put them in the standard "bags and boards" sold at your local comics shop to keep them safe and then I stuff them in a box or drawer somewhere where they will hopefully inflate in value but never be opened again.  Yeah, collecting singles really is a pain. :(
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