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Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Not Been Contacted About Predator 4

With Terminator Genisys now out in cinemas around the world, Arnold Schwarzenegger has been making the rounds at various events to promote the film. During a special preview screening of Terminator Genisys he did a Q&A with various redditors. At one point he was asked about Shane Black’s upcoming Predator 4.

Schwarzenegger said that he hadn’t be contacted  about Predator 4 and he didn’t know anything about the upcoming sequel. He did express confidence in Shane Black’s writing though and disappointment in the sequels that followed Predator.

I’d certainly love to see Arnold Schwarzenegger make a return to the Predator franchise. What about you guys and girls? Thanks to Doctor_Foster for the news.



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  1. pred169


    I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
    Yeah that would be acceptable as well. Someone who has seen them in action and is tasked with tracking and capturing one.
    But you see Baldwin as a side character like agent keyes knew about the predator so him being the mane character would ruin the tense and him knowing the predator how it operates would be a downside.

    Not necessarily. Him taking over after Keyes could be very eventful. And as far as him knowing how the predator operates that could actually be more suspenseful. Especially with his attitude.  Garber already displayed his arrogance and napoleon complex. Him being put in charge would probably stroke his ego even more and leave him open to mistakes. Not to mention technically he didn't really see anything with the predator. He watched the monitors. And when the pred realized he was walking into a trap he went apeshit and killed everyone so fast that you really couldn't see what was going on in the building. The monitors all went blank. All he knows is the feeding habits and the movements of ONE of the predators. They all have different methods of hunting.
    After watching Predator 2 yet again something kinda stuck out and made me think of this thread immediately. When keyes was talking to harrigan and explaining about the predator he mentions iwo jima, Cambodia, and  Beirut. And then stated they were drawn to heat and conflict. That whole explanation tells us that they have been studying these creatures since at least world war II. And the fact that keyes group arrived in LA so soon after the arrival of the preds suggest that they are somehow able to track the arrival of preds. Maybe even hunting patterns. They knew about the active camouflage, his eating patterns, weaponry, vision, and how it moved. They knew tons about them. Which in turn makes the slim possibility of someone running into them more than once.....not such a slim possibility anymore. So dutch running into one after x amount of years or even tracking them isn't such a stretch after all.
  2. Engineer
    In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.

    I can't remember which novel it was but I'm sure another talks about the Predators using their mandibles inside the mask to control certain functions. does anyone else remember that?
    That doesn't ring any bells for me, but I haven't read all the books yet either. Funny thing is, while I was typing the post you quoted, I had a 'what if' thought that the predator had a keyboard imbedded in his helmet right where it's mouth is, and it used its mandibles to type in commands. Lol. That's what all those clicking sounds are about!!! Jk


    Woah! Sorry hicks, I dunno how this quote thing messed up like this. :-/

    I had all the text in the right place...
    Edit: fixed quote display...


    LOL the clicking sound = super fast mandible typing!  :P

    Well folks, it looks like Engineer has finally solved the mystery of Predator clicking.

    I just found the predator's resume online; under "skills" it said:

    Typing speed
    70 WPM by hand
    120 WPM by mandibles

    Lmao, jk
  3. The Alien Predator
    In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.

    I can't remember which novel it was but I'm sure another talks about the Predators using their mandibles inside the mask to control certain functions. does anyone else remember that?
    That doesn't ring any bells for me, but I haven't read all the books yet either. Funny thing is, while I was typing the post you quoted, I had a 'what if' thought that the predator had a keyboard imbedded in his helmet right where it's mouth is, and it used its mandibles to type in commands. Lol. That's what all those clicking sounds are about!!! Jk


    Woah! Sorry hicks, I dunno how this quote thing messed up like this. :-/

    I had all the text in the right place...
    Edit: fixed quote display...


    LOL the clicking sound = super fast mandible typing!  :P

    Well folks, it looks like Engineer has finally solved the mystery of Predator clicking.
  4. pred169


    I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
    Yeah that would be acceptable as well. Someone who has seen them in action and is tasked with tracking and capturing one.
    But you see Baldwin as a side character like agent keyes knew about the predator so him being the mane character would ruin the tense and him knowing the predator how it operates would be a downside.

    Not necessarily. Him taking over after Keyes could be very eventful. And as far as him knowing how the predator operates that could actually be more suspenseful. Especially with his attitude.  Garber already displayed his arrogance and napoleon complex. Him being put in charge would probably stroke his ego even more and leave him open to mistakes. Not to mention technically he didn't really see anything with the predator. He watched the monitors. And when the pred realized he was walking into a trap he went apeshit and killed everyone so fast that you really couldn't see what was going on in the building. The monitors all went blank. All he knows is the feeding habits and the movements of ONE of the predators. They all have different methods of hunting.
  5. THE CITY HUNTER
    I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
    Yeah that would be acceptable as well. Someone who has seen them in action and is tasked with tracking and capturing one.
    But you see Baldwin as a side character like agent keyes knew about the predator so him being the mane character would ruin the tense and him knowing the predator how it operates would be a downside.
  6. pred169
    Yeah but its not because his acting is horrible.

    But at the same time you can't claim the success of Predator 4 hinges on his participation, because clearly he's not the big-name draw he once was.
    Oh I completely agree. I am by no means insinuating that he will be the reason for the movies demise or rise. I was just stating that I feel his acting is still up to par he's just picking the wrong roles. Of course you never know... maybe he's just doing lesser roles until he can find his groove again. I thought he did an excellent job in terminator genisys.
      Back to the new predator film... yes I agree it has been great that the series has continued without tying them all to a sole actor. I also feel that a return to one of the original characters would be a refreshing experience. It's something most don't see coming. It's been said before that the chances of having an encounter more than once in a lifetime is stretching it thin. I say... why not. That could be exactly what the series needs. Something that hasn't been attempted before. A "round two" if you will. Now I'm not suggesting the preds try to find him because he survived before. I'm not even suggesting that he went off the rails and started trying to track them around the world. But a chance encounter some 20-30 years down the road could make for an exciting plot. Because he's seen them in action before he knows what tricks they have so the predator or predators have to change up their tactics and weaponry if they want to complete their hunt and collect their trophies. Yes its a slim chance that a second encounter could ever happen but so is winning the lottery and we see that all the time. Do you not think that would make for an interesting turn of events?

    I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
    Yeah that would be acceptable as well. Someone who has seen them in action and is tasked with tracking and capturing one.
  7. Engineer
    In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.

    I can't remember which novel it was but I'm sure another talks about the Predators using their mandibles inside the mask to control certain functions. does anyone else remember that?
    That doesn't ring any bells for me, but I haven't read all the books yet either. Funny thing is, while I was typing the post you quoted, I had a 'what if' thought that the predator had a keyboard imbedded in his helmet right where it's mouth is, and it used its mandibles to type in commands. Lol. That's what all those clicking sounds are about!!! Jk


    Woah! Sorry hicks, I dunno how this quote thing messed up like this. :-/

    I had all the text in the right place...
    Edit: fixed quote display...
  8. Whiskeybrewer
    I like the fact that each Predator film has been a different set of characters. it brings something new each time. I wouldnt have Arnie back, maybe just reference his character, but i would have Adam Baldwin's character back from number 2
  9. pred169
    Gotta say I think for Predator 4 to be a success we need Arnie back in the franchise as an older Dutch.

    Because Arnie's recent films have been such runaway successes.
    Yeah but its not because his acting is horrible. you can't hold him responsible for poor storyline or screenwriting. It's not his fault the script or the story sucks. And most of the films he's been in have already been done a million times over. I think the problem is he's doing roles he's comfortable playing. The type he would have played pre-governor, and doesn't realize those type of films haven't been all that successful because they've all been played out. I think the return of a character such as Dutch would be beneficial for both the movie and his acting career.
  10. Corporal Hicks
    In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.

    I can't remember which novel it was but I'm sure another talks about the Predators using their mandibles inside the mask to control certain functions. does anyone else remember that?
  11. The_Angry_Barbarian
    Gotta say I think for Predator 4 to be a success we need Arnie back in the franchise as an older Dutch. I for one think Dutch should be hunting down the Predator perhaps becoming obsessed with a desire to both learn more about his adversary and get revenge upon the species for the deaths of his comrades particularly as he knows they hunt humans for sport. The Predator franchise I think needs to kind of look into some of the possible ideas for Alien 5 with the whole return of Ripley thing. We kind of need a few nods back to the original as well as taking the franchise in a different direction (like Prometheus did but not in the same way those films went).

    For me it needs to be something completely new I don't want a rehash of the original which Predators basically was, there needs to be a more expansive story, tell us or even show us something about these creatures we don't already know and perhaps do that in a way that has us wondering what the hell's gonna happen next. Finally as I said before we need Dutch back, Alien has Ripley and the strength of her character alone is why Alien and Aliens are such great stories (I wasn't a big fan or Alien 3 and Resurrection was just terrible in my opinion) so we need Dutch as a priority. Harrigan I thought was great in Predator 2 but as much as I'd like to see more of that character I don't think the franchise should do that just yet.

    I like the idea of Dutch tracking down Yautja as it gives an ironic twist to the whole set up I mean the Predator has to be the main threat but having Dutch track one down and attempt to hunt it himself will probably not go completely to plan so that could be a fresh direction or even allude to what the Yautja might do to those that have succeeded against them and survived; I mean a prey species killing the hunter is going to attract attention. For some reason I would just love to see Dutch have a look of horror come across his face as he realises he has to deal with another Predator. As for what Predators did I think Shane Black needs to steer clear of it I mean it was an ok film but it was basically a wannabe version of the original which while entertaining at times is just not what I want from a Predator movie.
  12. The Alien Predator
    Really cool stuff man. Predators have some really good scanning and sensor technology available to them.

    And lol at the mistake. I saw some funny ones in the recent Titan Books trilogy such as Pulse Rifles suddenly becoming Plasma Rifles.  :laugh:
  13. Engineer
    The Novel also indicates the predator was able to see through harrigans car frame and focus on him inside during the opening gun fight, as well as list off his vital statistics off to the side of the display then comparing that data to information in the helmet's memory banks to identify the target (biometrics).

    I did catch a mistake in the novel though... On page 2, it states the year is 1995. Lol
  14. The Alien Predator
    Thanks, Engineer.  ;D

    Both you and Huda show undeniable proof that the Predator is able to recognise and follow specific individuals,

    Also thanks for mentioning that bit from the novel. I always had a feeling some Predator tech was telepathically linked to their wearer. Such advanced tech... how did a creature that can only see blobs of red even make such things? This alone proves Predators see much more than what a 80's style thermal camera can show our 'visible spectrum' vision on screen.

    Another thing that doesn't prove Xenomorphine's point is his constant mentioning of people moving in and out of the target's building, which would make them difficult to track. The same thing can be said for a human stalking the same target at a distance. People can vanish into a crowd very easily. Yet who says Predators only use vision? Lucrecia Borgia did mention that she had to mask her heat and use perfume to mask her pheromones in the game Concrete Jungle. Maybe this could've been another way Predators stalk? With pheromones? (Which were ironically used to track it as well   :laugh:)

    The masks seem to have a tagging ability of some sort, Sorry to bring up AvP R, but didn't the Predalien appear in yellow as opposed to the other Aliens being green? I don't fully remember the details. I think one of the Predators saw the Abomination and shot it, then sends this whole video recording to Wolf who no doubt also 'tagged' the Abomination to more easily recognize it even at a distance.

    In conclusion, it's alien tech, an alien mind and an alien vision, Xenomorphine. We wouldn't understand it anyway even if it hit us in the face. It's like trying to explains how Xenomorphs grow so fast, or how they breathe with lips closed, there could be so many explanations that would then become disagreements followed by constant debates.
  15. Engineer
    I didn't wanna bring the novel into it because, you know, it's not the film, but yes, the book makes it abundantly clear the Predator is specifically following Harrigan. It even goes so far as to point out it deliberately follows and targets Leona and Jerry on the subway in order to antagonise him, because it's been following them collectively closely enough to know they are friends/comrades.

    But even forgetting the book, Xenomorphine's argument falls apart when you consider the scene where the Predator leaves Harrigan Danny's necklace at the cemetery. That could only happen if the creature had deliberately followed him there. Unless you're seriously trying to suggest it's just randomly leaving the necklace hanging in a tree for the lulz, and out of all the trees in the city it just miraculously happens to pick one a) near Danny's grave, and b) while Harrigan is stood thirty feet away.

    Agreed. Novel wasn't my first choice... :-)
  16. HuDaFuK
    I didn't wanna bring the novel into it because, you know, it's not the film, but yes, the book makes it abundantly clear the Predator is specifically following Harrigan. It even goes so far as to point out it deliberately follows and targets Leona and Jerry on the subway in order to antagonise him, because it's been following them collectively closely enough to know they are friends/comrades.

    But even forgetting the book, Xenomorphine's argument falls apart when you consider the scene where the Predator leaves Harrigan Danny's necklace at the cemetery. That could only happen if the creature had deliberately followed him there. Unless you're seriously trying to suggest it's just randomly leaving the necklace hanging in a tree for the lulz, and out of all the trees in the city it just miraculously happens to pick one a) near Danny's grave, and b) while Harrigan is stood thirty feet away.
  17. Engineer
    anthropomorphise... Good word usage, Guan! :-)

    Ok, so here's a consideration. In my opinion, the primary source material for canonical information or filling story elements is always the movie. A secondary source would be the script. I don't have access to the script; I tried downloading it here but it wouldn't open for me (probably because I tried with my phone). So the next best thing would be a tertiary source, a movie novilization, which I DO happen to have.

    In the novel, which was written based on the script and movie itself, they try to portray the predator pov by describing what the predator sees, hears and thinks. Those portions are written in a different font to emphasize that it's a different view point. The novel's predator pov describes the predator distinctly focusing on harrigan because he seems to be more worthy prey based on his actions. It also describes it using different vision filters and magnifications to focus in on harrigan and block everything else out. How did it do this? With some sort of "telepathic" connection with the helmet and its sensors. I found this within the first 18 pages... The rest of the book probably has dozens of other examples.

    Is this proof enough?
  18. The Alien Predator
    Engineer points out some good things too.

    Predator minds simply process their vision in their own way. Your human mind is confused by this, but to them it could be very clear. Remember, these are alien minds so try not to anthropomorphise the Predators by projecting yourself into that visual spectrum, Xenomorphine.

    If you think them tracking one person is so hard, how the hell did they make their tech?

    Forget "make", even if they stole it, you HAVE to be able to "see" what you are using right? How do they read their writing? How do they see their holograms? Plus stealing tech can only go so far, you have to get to the point where you have to replicate it right? Good luck with that if you only see "blobs of red" in a 80's style effects blue and green blurry as hell background. Good luck figuring out particles, good luck analysing cellular science, good luck researching molecules for advanced tech, none of these things as far as I know generate any heat. Good luck finding the medical tools needed to treat your wounds if you only see blotches of red.

    Also Predator blood for some reason appears bright green in their natural unmasked vision just like in our own which is a bit odd. Truth is, it's some kind of alien vision. Even we can slightly see in the IR spectrum, for instance, when some metal begins to glow red hot, if I'm not mistaken, that red heat is IR as hot things are "red" in both visible and IR spectrums and anything glowing white is the hottest. So if that's correct, then it's no surprise that Predators may catch a little more than just heat (hence them being able to see their blood as bright green while to us it is bioluminescent bright green.)

    Notice how too much heat kinda blinds a Predator's heat based vision just how too much light blinds a human's visible light based vision? When you think about it, we are really similar in the way our eyes work and how our neurons perceive this information. Remember, the "vision" you see is what your brain is projecting, that is how some illusions happen, when the brain struggles to put together the information your eyes give it.

    So a Predator's eyes pick up the heat, the brain analyses it. And to me, Predators are very intelligent and cunning predatory animals, so they gotta be able to pick between prey, even for food, pick the injured, weak, sick or in a sporty hunt, pick something challenging etc. They gotta be able to tell things apart by nature just like lions hunting a group of prey animals. All predators have the ability to pick and choose, it's the whole purpose of most predators having forward facing eyes, for the sake of focusing on one thing.
  19. blood.
    Rather than do a point-by-point thing, I'm just going to do an unnecessarily lengthy illustrated guide. :)

    Spoiler (click to show/hide)

     :o
    Spoiler (click to show/hide)

    I get it - the film doesn't show us how it tracks.

    k thx
  20. Engineer
    No... That's not the logic you're talking about. This is what doesn't make any sense to me: you say the predator pov is meant to be taken literally as what the predator sees because that's what the director used in the film; yet you ignore the events and dialog that the director included which point to the predator tracking harrigan, rather than taking all that literally too. Explain to me why we should take the predator pov as literal, but not the events/dialogue?

    You're absolutely right about avp; the directors there were thinking about it too much in human-terms... It looks snazzy on screen, but put some thought in and it doesn't make sense. We agree on that. But you're doing the same thing with the predator pov; thinking about it in human-terms. As I've already pointed out, as well as others, and most recently as Guan thwei pointed out:

    the predator evolved that way, we didn't

    Thermal doesn't translate well to visual light, and turns out looking liked color-coded blobs to us, but you can never truly know what the predator really sees... It's too 'alien' for us. The purpose of the predator pov in This respect was to let us (the audience) know that it sees in thermal. Otherwise, we would have been lost when Dutch used mud to hide himself.

    And practically speaking, special effects just weren't good enough in the 80s/90s to provide the crystal clear clarity you're longing for.

    And yes, they have shown a predator tracking its prey through multiple movies... As far back as predator 2 at the very least, The entire movie emphasizes it without showing us how (because 'how' wasn't important for the plot)... And ultimately, the lack of a 'how' does not equate as evidence that they could not.

    Again, the logic was never "because they can" it's "because the movie showed us they could/did." The whole technology/magic quote was to suggest that just because it seems like magic to you doesn't mean it is, just an advanced technology which none of us have any understanding of, and in this case we don't understand it because it's never explicitly shown/described. When you watch any movie with faster than lightspeed travel involved, what explanation do you provide to counteract the time dilation problem or the cosmic speed limit problem? They never show us or explain to us how they've solved those problems, but for the sake of the movie you take it as it comes and believe they can because they did it, right? That's the same concept. They must have some technology which we don't understand (yet) which allows for this, but it wasn't pivotal to the plot of the movie so the details were left out (or filled in with scientific jargon to sound official). It's common practice in sci fi... Alien is guilty of it, terminator is guilty of it, avatar is guilty of it, in fact I don't think I can find ANY sci fi movie that isn't guilty of it to some extent... Even the first predator is guilty of it; how did the predator manage to cloak itself in the first place? Answer: an advanced technology we do not understand...
  21. The Alien Predator
    If Harrigan was somehow being tracked by unknown senses in the mask, then why was it impossible to apply those same abilities to Dutch? That's where all this falls down. If you presume these other abilities exist, then you have to come up with a reason they weren't being employed against Dutch. The fact they weren't, heavily suggests that thermal is their primary and only means to typically locate/track a human target.

    Because the first Predator bought a pre-owned mask at Wal-Mart while the second Predator ordered a premium quality Bio-Mask from Amazon, brand new.

    Plus he forgot to install the cool apps that City Hunter had.

     :P


    But seriously, with that way of thinking, you might as well ask "why didn't the Predator switch vision modes while tracking Dutch"? He probably had a lower quality mask or hadn't earned the right to more vision modes.

    In AvP, the Predators periodically switch and alter vision modes to keep up to date on their surroundings, how was Scar able to realize Weyland was suddenly sick and decided to look further with X-ray modes?

    Plus in Predators, their thermal vision is very detailed, even their "normal" vision looks detailed. You brushed it off as "it doesn't matter", well, it does, special effects improve, and so do Predator visions. Sure, in the 80's they had limitations, but now, you see just how detailed their vision is.

    How do you explain the Predator suddenly being so agile and able to jump between branches without falling? Could you jump around in that vision? Of course not because you didn't evolve with it.

    Even with our decent vision, we stumble and bump into things. I have yet to see a Predator crash into a tree in the middle of a leap...

    Their vision isn't THAT bad dude. I play through AvP in Predator vision for fun through the entire game and I can tell individual Colonial Marine designs apart. If I can do it, they sure as hell can because that's their natural vision.

    But overall, you do raise some points. Their vision isn't perfect, but it's not bad either. They can notice details in the environment, plants moving around, rocks being thrown and upon closer inspection, people. It's true that at a distance they would be hard to be seen, but even our vision is crap at a distance and only upon closer inspection do we see finer details. And don't forget that Predator masks have this fascinating ability to zoom onto things at a distance.  :)

    Also take into consideration that Predators have lots of artwork in their ships and pyramids, what is the point of that if they can't see it so well? Also why do the Predators bother with marking themselves? Or their masks? And doesn't City Hunter appear to have tribal tattoos of some kind? Again, no point of those for a creature that can't see and appreciate colour or fine details. That's why any Predator art or sculpture lacks any colour, their vision is more focused on the detail of the environment.

    I think you may have looked a bit too much into the special effects of a 80's and early 90's movie. Yet as the effects improve, you see more details in their vision too. Otherwise, it's just gonna be a contradiction, "how comes these Predators see better than the last ones? How comes this one switches masks while the last one didn't?"

    So, like it or not, Predators see a lot better than what the camera shows. Or why would they even bother improving their vision with each new movie?
  22. Corporal Hicks
    It's also why I can't buy the serial killer in 'Predators' was abducted because of his history, as the creatures wouldn't have realistically known about that, either. I could believe it was for another reason or that he got caught up in something and they decided to chuck him in anyway, though. The BSPs didn't seem to care about 'honour' stuff.

    Predators makes a huge deal of the mystery behind Edwin and how he fits in with the group and presents it to you as him being a monster in his own right, a right that would require actual observation and tracking.

    The belief that the Predators are capable of tracking and observing individuals is far less of a reach than coincidental encounters. Especially as the films tell you this.
  23. Xenomorphine
    You're still overlooking the obvious. The movie tells us and shows us that the predator IS tracking him... They just don't show/say how. So because it's not shown/explained explicitly in the movie, we're just supposed to assume it can't??? Or call it bad writing because they left us a little bit of a mystery???

    Have Predators been shown - over the course of between three to five films - that they have something which can constantly locate and track even one individual, let alone several, over an entire human city? No. No, they have not. The closest we've seen to that is a huge mechanical flying drone. That's why the 'hand-wave' method falls flat on its face for me. :)

    Others can believe they can, of course. All I've said is that I don't personally buy it.

    Quote
    The trajectory comment was just an example that the helmet has some computational power (maybe the hard drive is in its wrist gauntlet). The helmet could just as easily be doing any number of things behind the scenes to help track or locate. Other light spectrums could even help provide data to the helmet; it would still receive that light even if the preferred display is thermal for the predator.

    Which would be great, except it's never shown to be doing that. It never highlights Harrigan/Jerry/Leona/Danny in any way, whatsoever. It never even gives so much as an audio cue - and every time it's watching him, it's doing so with thermal (and all the other modes of vision we're shown are just as awful for identifying individuals in a crowd).

    Quote
    And on the train those weren't exactly innocent bystanders; they were all armed and brandishing their weapons which made them viable prey in the moment. The predator obviously wasn't there because it liked trains; it was following jerry/Leona. It could have been watching from a distance, or standing right next to them cloaked as they boarded the train. Who knows? They don't show us how; if they had, the scene wouldn't have been a surprise anyway so that's likely an artifact of screen-writing (wouldn't be the first time).

    You've just illustrated exactly why, for me, coincidence is way more easier to believe. :) Takes the fewest leaps of faith for them to have simply been caught up in an already-violent situation.

    I'm not sure everyone on the train was armed (I thought a lot of them Leona was herding to the exit were unarmed), but I'd have to re-watch it.

    Quote
    And you mean to tell me it's NOT toying with him, and it was merely coincidence that Danny's necklace was hanging from a tree for harrigan to find in the cemetery while he was visiting Danny's grave?!? Then I stand corrected (not really).

    That's the only real clue it might be doing something along those lines, yes. But I'm still waiting for a plausible method for them to be doing this locating/tracking of all four characters, simultaneously, over the entire city, which Predators have access to.

    Otherwise, this effectively all comes down to a 'because they can' argument.

    Quote
    Ultimately, this is NOTHING like the alien 3 'magic egg' controversy. There really isn't any good explanation for that debate! But this whole predator tracking thing has nothing illogical or 'magical' behind it; the movie tells us it can, therefore it can, and there are dozens of plausible ways it could. It's not a 'the predator can just because' explanation, and it's definitely not the same logic as 'it's using magic' either.

    I'm still waiting for one. :)

    Honestly, given what we've seen, on screen, they have no plausible way to be doing it. Same way as there's no plausible way to explain the egg, without doing a whole lot of 'what if' mental gymnastics.

    If they couldn't track Dutch and they couldn't track Royce, it's going to be a damned sight harder to do in a city, not easier.

    Harrigan is wearing some kind of locator? The mask isn't showing it. They can smell him? Harder to do in a city, not less - and they didn't smell Dutch or Royce.

    Quote
    PS. Don't even get me started on the hologram maps/displays they've been showing us in those God-awful AvP movies! I'm sure it's just for our benefit, but a hologram map in visual light would be useless to a predator using thermal vision (unless the hologram is also a 'heatogram' or its switching to another vision mode). I find that ridiculous! But I can overlook it, by the same assumption; there's something technologically I don't see or know about going on!

    Aaaaand that's the very logic I'm talking about. :)

    You realise Plot Device X doesn't work (mostly because the writer(s) were thinking in human terms), so, you have to overlook it or think up plausible alternatives. But it's not necessary to be entertained by the story - it's just there, hovering in the background as something unexplained.

    It's also why I can't buy the serial killer in 'Predators' was abducted because of his history, as the creatures wouldn't have realistically known about that, either. I could believe it was for another reason or that he got caught up in something and they decided to chuck him in anyway, though. The BSPs didn't seem to care about 'honour' stuff.
  24. Engineer
    You're still overlooking the obvious. The movie tells us and shows us that the predator IS tracking him... They just don't show/say how. So because it's not shown/explained explicitly in the movie, we're just supposed to assume it can't??? Or call it bad writing because they left us a little bit of a mystery???

    The trajectory comment was just an example that the helmet has some computational power (maybe the hard drive is in its wrist gauntlet). The helmet could just as easily be doing any number of things behind the scenes to help track or locate. Other light spectrums could even help provide data to the helmet; it would still receive that light even if the preferred display is thermal for the predator.

    And on the train those weren't exactly innocent bystanders; they were all armed and brandishing their weapons which made them viable prey in the moment. The predator obviously wasn't there because it liked trains; it was following jerry/Leona. It could have been watching from a distance, or standing right next to them cloaked as they boarded the train. Who knows? They don't show us how; if they had, the scene wouldn't have been a surprise anyway so that's likely an artifact of screen-writing (wouldn't be the first time).

    And you mean to tell me it's NOT toying with him, and it was merely coincidence that Danny's necklace was hanging from a tree for harrigan to find in the cemetery while he was visiting Danny's grave?!? Then I stand corrected (not really).

    Ultimately, this is NOTHING like the alien 3 'magic egg' controversy. There really isn't any good explanation for that debate! But this whole predator tracking thing has nothing illogical or 'magical' behind it; the movie tells us it can, therefore it can, and there are dozens of plausible ways it could. It's not a 'the predator can just because' explanation, and it's definitely not the same logic as 'it's using magic' either.

    PS. Don't even get me started on the hologram maps/displays they've been showing us in those God-awful AvP movies! I'm sure it's just for our benefit, but a hologram map in visual light would be useless to a predator using thermal vision (unless the hologram is also a 'heatogram' or its switching to another vision mode). I find that ridiculous! But I can overlook it, by the same assumption; there's something technologically I don't see or know about going on!
  25. HuDaFuK
    Seriously, the insistence that it has to be (astronomically unlikely) coincidence, rather than simply being down to something we aren't shown and/or don't understand, just doesn't fly at all.

    That's by far the less sensible supposition.
  26. Corporal Hicks
    I get it - the film doesn't show us how it tracks. And I get that it's a problem for you because of how unspecific the infra-red vision is shown to be.

    But it still doesn't mean that you can't reasonably think that it's possibly that the Predator has some other method of tracking specific targets (some form of tagging like we do with IR or radio for example). The films clearly show us that they can track somehow. And there's a lot of plausible ways for them to do that that aren't limited to a visual facial recognition, especially considering that the Predators are supposed to be more advanced than us. It's really easy to believe. Maybe they'll be nice enough to show us that some day.
  27. Xenomorphine
    Rather than do a point-by-point thing, I'm just going to do an unnecessarily lengthy illustrated guide. :)

    Spoiler (click to show/hide)
  28. Corporal Hicks
    Doesn't matter. That's what the original Predators were meant to be seeing (in the same way as the one from 'Requiem' is old and busted).

    And even if it did have picture-perfect facial recognition (which it doesn't), that still only helps if the Predator is constantly looking at the guy. :) Even we humans, in our professional intelligence services, need to devote entire teams of several people - at any one simultaneous time - to tracking someone. The thing is wandering around the entire city and periodically going back to base.

    Who says it's based on facial recognition? As I said earlier, there are more senses than that. And just because those senses/tracking methods aren't explicitly shown in the other films doesn't mean it can't happen. We don't see them using holograms in the first films but we know they have them. They have a wrist computer full of output we can't read.

    Predators shows they are interested in specific people - and whilst it's possible they were quick grabs, Edwin is a serial killer who is less blatant and would show no immediate signs of interest so I would have assumed he was tracked prior to being snatched.

    It really isn't hard to believe they are capable of differentiating people and taking an interest in specific ones.
  29. Engineer
    Ok, so the predator in the second film was better equipped than the predator in the first film... Or perhaps just equipped differently. Hunters don't always go in to the hunt with the same gear. And this is a trend which was started by the second film and carried through to all other films featuring a predator... The first predator didn't have a smart-disk, or dual shoulder cannons. Perhaps the predator in the second film equipped itself with an urban tracking device of some sort, and we weren't explicitly shown this device (I.e., a Harrigan  pheromone tracker or something)... Just conjecture, I know... But you can't rule it out either, since they never explicitly say it didn't have something. And no, I'm not talking about 'magic,' I'm talking about a technology that we may not (yet) understand which is very common in sci fi movies anyway.

    I'm still not convinced that the thermal vision was unsuitable for identifying individuals either, even in a city with millions of other potential targets. Or that it was unable to identify Jerry/Leona on a speeding train. It had the capability of using a rock's trajectory to find Dutch after he threw it as a distraction, so it obviously has computational power in that helmet for tracking a moving target or tracing a moving target's trajectory back to its point of origin; I don't think locking on to a train is a huge leap in logic, especially if it watched and knew jerry/Leona had boarded the train already. Nor do I think it's a huge leap in logic that the helmet couldn't assist in pointing out a target it marked for tracking by using biometrics or some other light spectrum aside from thermal IF it truly was unable to tell the individuals apart for itself; again it can't be ruled out because they don't explicitly say it can't even though they never explicitly show it can either.

    As for how it knew harrigan was the guy who stepped out of the car, maybe it was his hair cut that gave him away there (lol, jk). Seriously, though, it could have been anything, possibly voice recognition as he spoke to the driver after exiting the vehicle.

    Backtracking a little bit, let's go back to your Spock quote:

    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    I haven't see any definitive evidence yet to suggest that it was impossible for the predator to track harrigan. So we still have two possibilities:

    1) it was coincidence.

    2) it was tracking him by some means: visual, technological or otherwise.

    Of these two possibilities, coincidence is much less probable. So I remain convinced it was tracking him by some method which we are most likely unaware of since it wasn't explicitly shown in the movie.... But it was tracking him, nonetheless, which was strongly eluded to (or should I say "said outright"):

    Leona: "first Danny, then King willie, and you were right there. He's playing with you mike. You gotta be careful."

    Soooo, using the same logic you used in regards to the predator vision, if the director/writers included this dialog they must have meant for us to take this quote 'literally' and wanted us to believe harrigan was being followed/tracked by the predator. How was it tracking him? They must have intended for us to use our imaginations a little bit... :-)

    OR, you can assume both predators were equipped exactly the same; the equipment is only as good as it's user. Perhaps that first predator didn't use, or think to use, it's tracking methods because it didn't think it was necessary. It seemed genuinely surprised to learn of Dutch's clever disguise. I wouldn't find that explanation hard to believe either.
  30. Xenomorphine
    Who ever said the predators can do as the please 'just because'?

    They want to locate and track a target they have no way of doing so, yet supposedly can do.

    That's the same logic.

    If Harrigan was somehow being tracked by unknown senses in the mask, then why was it impossible to apply those same abilities to Dutch? That's where all this falls down. If you presume these other abilities exist, then you have to come up with a reason they weren't being employed against Dutch. The fact they weren't, heavily suggests that thermal is their primary and only means to typically locate/track a human target.

    Quote
    The fact that harrigan was unable to hide himself from the predator like Dutch just made it much more believable that he could have been tracked for so long.

    Incorrect. He was hiding a lot - he just had no idea he needed to. The only way the Predator would have known always where he and his friends were, would be if it had a constant lock - simultaneously - in all three of them. Use thermal on the entire city of LA and tell me how it kept relocating them. Then tell me how it supposedly knew Jerry/Leona were on a specific carriage on a specific speeding train. How was it doing this?

    We can even keep it simple and look just at Harrigan's car ride to meet KW. :) How did the Predator know he's the one who got out the smokey vehicle, as opposed to the other heavily-built humanoid shapes? It wasn't exactly seeing through the roof.

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    They have obvious limitations, but the films never show us all of the limitations or technological 'wizardry' they have at their disposal; they leave some to the imagination which was far more common in movies in the 80s and 90s as opposed to today.

    The first film showed their limitations. Limitations which would have prevented them knowing where Harrigan was in a city of millions, not to mention his friends, too. That's all the second film had to do - keep in line with those very same limitations.

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    And there were innocent bystanders nearby. Not exactly in the crossfire, but harrigan and his team barged in on them when searching the building that the criminals retreated to.

    If they were inside the building, it wouldn't have known. At that point, it wasn't even observing. It was going to get its own kills.

    Quote
    We never see the criminals shoot any innocent people nearby, but my own interpretation (and that's what this is, MY interpretation, not a solid argument) is that they did at some point while the predator was watching. Plus, we have no idea how long the predator was watching harrigan before it started racking up its own body count... We're assuming harrigan got its attention in the opening shoot out, because that's where the movie starts us at... But Keyes did mention that the predator had been there and kept returning to the meat factory on a regular cycle for a while if I remember correctly...

    So, like I said, from what we know the Predator saw of the guy, he didn't really do anything more deserving of a prolonged stalk, than any of the guys in the first film. :)

    In fact, as it was meant to have been a more reckless creature, that should have singled him out as a kill earlier on, not much later.

    I honestly can't see why anyone would argue the Predator repeatedly happening upon Harrigan in the second film is blind coincidence rather than the Predator simply having some way of following him around.

    That's like arguing planes fly using magic as opposed to physics. It's counter-intuitive.

    It gets around the plot-hole of not being able to locate him in a city of millions. Especially when the creature is primarily there to look for prey to hunt and kill.

    The writers intended for us to realise he was being tracked. The creature's severe limitations, however, mean it had no realistic way to do this.

    Like I said, it's the same situation as the magical teleporting egg in 'Alien 3': The writers didn't expect the audience to question it or apply logic, but once you do, it falls down. The egg's very existence doesn't make sense. At that point it becomes perfectly valid to offer up possible alternatives - even though the writers of the film didn't intend us to think of any.
  31. Engineer
    I honestly can't see why anyone would argue the Predator repeatedly happening upon Harrigan in the second film is blind coincidence rather than the Predator simply having some way of following him around.

    That's like arguing planes fly using magic as opposed to physics. It's counter-intuitive.
    To a caveman, it would be magical; that was the point behind posting that Arthur c. Clark quote... :-)

    But you're right; I don't see it as coincidental either.

    And YES, the first predator was indeed far more clever than any other predator film; I definitely agree with you there xenomorphine! :-)
  32. HuDaFuK
    I honestly can't see why anyone would argue the Predator repeatedly happening upon Harrigan in the second film is blind coincidence rather than the Predator simply having some way of following him around.

    That's like arguing planes fly using magic as opposed to physics. It's counter-intuitive.
  33. Engineer
    Who ever said the predators can do as the please 'just because'? The fact that harrigan was unable to hide himself from the predator like Dutch just made it much more believable that he could have been tracked for so long. They have obvious limitations, but the films never show us all of the limitations or technological 'wizardry' they have at their disposal; they leave some to the imagination which was far more common in movies in the 80s and 90s as opposed to today.

    And there were innocent bystanders nearby. Not exactly in the crossfire, but harrigan and his team barged in on them when searching the building that the criminals retreated to. We never see the criminals shoot any innocent people nearby, but my own interpretation (and that's what this is, MY interpretation, not a solid argument) is that they did at some point while the predator was watching. Plus, we have no idea how long the predator was watching harrigan before it started racking up its own body count... We're assuming harrigan got its attention in the opening shoot out, because that's where the movie starts us at... But Keyes did mention that the predator had been there and kept returning to the meat factory on a regular cycle for a while if I remember correctly...
  34. Xenomorphine
    Just because they don't explicitly show us how the predator is tracking him doesn't mean it can't/didn't. I don't see how it's bad writing; they just left something to the imagination...

    Partly because it runs counter to the far more logical precedent set by the first film. Why was Harrigan so easy to repeatedly find when Dutch (who did a lot more to prove worthy of 'prize trophy' status) wasn't?

    Dutch turned the creature's advanced technology against it. That's part of why the story felt quite clever in places. If we're saying Predators can do as they please, 'just because', then they really do start seeming more like magical beings, than something with realistic limitations, IMO.

    So, as I say, bad writing/plot-hole. :) That's why I prefer to excuse it by thinking of the run-ins as coincidental.

    Quote
    PS. The reason Harrigan was more worthy than the criminals to the predator, in my opinion, is because he not only displayed a violent streak but also because he showed a sense of honor and control that the criminals didn't. For example, he didn't just run in guns blazing and shooting anything that moved; he risked his neck to save fellow officers, and avoided shooting innocent bystanders who were in the area. On the other hand, maybe the predator DID target more worthy prey on the criminal side, hence its showdown with King willie... Or maybe that was the predator's not-so-subtle way of sending harrigan a message considering harrigan was there seconds before King willie bit the dust...

    There weren't any innocents standing in the cross-fire, from what I remember (aside from journalists who were standing way back). From the Predator's POV, all Harrigan did was to use a battering ram approach and out-flank a small group of them - something it seemed to find of only minor interest, considering how it immediately went off to rank up its own body-count. :)

    Ramming/out-flanking a small number of opponents doesn't make him worthy of being stalked for days on end. That's less than what the members of Dutch's team did - and the original film's creature stealth-killed them as soon as it could.

    KW was another kill I regard as opportunistic: A guy standing around with a big sword. Predators had no way to know of his underworld criminal connections or that he was running a drugs empire.
  35. Engineer
    PS. The reason Harrigan was more worthy than the criminals to the predator, in my opinion, is because he not only displayed a violent streak but also because he showed a sense of honor and control that the criminals didn't. For example, he didn't just run in guns blazing and shooting anything that moved; he risked his neck to save fellow officers, and avoided shooting innocent bystanders who were in the area. On the other hand, maybe the predator DID target more worthy prey on the criminal side, hence its showdown with King willie... Or maybe that was the predator's not-so-subtle way of sending harrigan a message considering harrigan was there seconds before King willie bit the dust...

  36. pred169


    Just because they don't explicitly show us how the predator is tracking him doesn't mean it can't/didn't. I don't see how it's bad writing; they just left something to the imagination...

    Yeah its kinda like the predators diet and feeding habits. We never see it and it only gets discussed once in the 2nd film. Other than that it was left out of scripting. Doesn't mean it wasn't feeding throughout both films. Writers were just focused on other aspects of the film. Them eating just wasn't important to the script.
  37. Engineer
    Just because they don't explicitly show us how the predator is tracking him doesn't mean it can't/didn't. I don't see how it's bad writing; they just left something to the imagination...
  38. Xenomorphine
    Doesn't matter. That's what the original Predators were meant to be seeing (in the same way as the one from 'Requiem' is old and busted).

    And even if it did have picture-perfect facial recognition (which it doesn't), that still only helps if the Predator is constantly looking at the guy. :) Even we humans, in our professional intelligence services, need to devote entire teams of several people - at any one simultaneous time - to tracking someone. The thing is wandering around the entire city and periodically going back to base.

    Harrigan not only isn't being tracked like that, but he's done nothing to prove himself worthy of it. Ergo, it's bad writing.
  39. DUB1
    Another thing is, the thermal POV scenes in the first two movies were shot with infrared cameras of the 80s/90s. Do people really think the Predator's vision was gonna look any better than what the cameras of the past allowed?

    I know it's not a in-universe explanation, but it does explain why the the Predator's vision appeared shitty for some people. Personally, I didn't have such a problem telling people apart.
  40. Corporal Hicks
    The film makes it quite clear that the Predator is tracking Harrigan and so it's quite obvious that they're able to distinguish those blobs of heat. There are more perceptions than just visual and it's quite clear that Predator technology is incredibly advanced. It doesn't take a leap in logic to assume they're capable of distinguishing individuals in some fashion.
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