According to The Wrap, Ridley Scott’s sequel to Prometheus is set for a March 2016 release. Production will allegedly begin this fall after the director is finished with his upcoming film, Exodus. Additionally, Green Lantern writer Michael Green has been brought on board to re-write the original draft for Prometheus 2 by Jack Paglen.
“Prometheus served as an unofficial prequel to Scott’s seminal 1979 sci-fi movie Alien, and the sequel that Green will write aims to be much more alien-y and in line with the terrifying tone of past films in the franchise. Additionally, the sequel is expected to feature multiple David androids, which means there will be more than one Michael Fassbender on screen at the same time, according to an individual familiar with the project.”
Thanks to Gazz for the news.
apart or so for good old Cap and co...
Nostromo -- seven crew.
Sulaco -- one.
You do actually watch these films, yes?
Clearly you expect wrong.
Because they were incapable of seeing the future.
Crew were deemed expendable. Obviously they didn't expect them to scuttle the ship, but insurance would've ultimately covered the loss.
I'm going by the reasons cited by Burke. As previously mentioned Cameron copied the setup for Alien in Aliens. Burke went fishing with the colonists the same way whoever issued SO937 did.
He wasn't in the vicinity.
So they wouldn't suspect anything when they woke up half way home.
Nope it's not complicated and yes it is borne out by basic logic. How people make the same mistakes you do is frankly baffling.
Perfect? No. Far from perfect? Also no.
Possibly. You could also tie it in to the while thing about the Nostromo being sent in the first place. Company = cheap.
Dallas the tug pilot was out of his element. Janek (whom I generally dig as a character) didn't even offer the rest of his largely nameless non-bridge crew the opportunity to evacuate.
Bishop is essentially the 'crew' of the Sulaco. In the script he was awake (a la David) and handled all the actual flying of the ship - so not out of thin air.
As I pointed out before, I think you're conflating 'tone' with 'character' and/or 'character behaviour'. Alien appears more 'realistic' not because of any innate acting skill of the actors involved or dialogue per se, but because of the approach that Scott chooses to take. Alien has a much more 'natural' approach in terms of lighting, camera set up, dialogue. Prometheus is much more based in 'fantasy' and its style is much more a 'hyper-reality' one - in terms of dialogue, lighting etc. etc. It's an aesthetic choice on the filmmaker's part... and is not a consequence of a lack of technical application. It's like comparing the behaviour of the characters in 2001:ASO to Star Trek when they are both trying to achieve completely different things.
I'd expect any captain, pilot or navigator to check/confirm at which point on their course they picked up a transmission/distress beacon. It's part of the detail that lends to more believability.
But there you go trying to justify things that are not in the film... Why would it be more costly when it obviously cost them the Nostromo and all its cargo anyway (that's what happens when you don;t send the right people for the right job)? What were the security issues (I've never heard of those??? Why not send Ash on his own if he was already in the vicinity? Why did he have to pretend to be... 1) Human? 2) A science officer crewmember of Nostromo?
But that's what you're alluding to isn't it? That complicated explanation for the company's rationale when that rationale is not borne out of any disenable logic presented in the film? That you accept it without question is great. I'm happy to accept it as well... but I'm merely pointing out that when Alien is under the microscope, it too is far from perfect. For example, as I pointed out before... Why have only a single escape shuttle that can't even take 50% of the crew? It's of course a contrivance to allow for Ripley's escape, but for it not to be an option prior to the deaths of Kane, Brett, Dallas and Ash. It serves the story fine, but when you start to examine the logic/detail, it doesn't stack up.
It did as soon as he was back in the ship.
Nope... the point wasn't in relation to the quarantine procedure. It was in reference to Ash's intervention. You, or SM, were stating that if they'd been left in the airlock only Kane would have died... and I was simply pointing out that we don't know that. We don't know what the facehugger would have done once finished with Kane. Would it curl up and die or try and impregnate someone else if in the immediate vicinity.? We don't know what the chestburster was capable of. Dallas may have very well of just stamped on its head with a big boot, but its not a given.
What a ridiculous comparison. A captain's responsibility is to his ship and the entire crew. He/she has to view things holistically, logically, objectively... that's the difference between those in charge that make decisions and those who get told what to do. Great... Dallas is a 'people' person... but it certainly didn't do the rest of the crew, the ship or its cargo any good. Ergo, he was short sighted and not a very good commanding officer.
Where in the film does it state that or is that another factoid you're just pullin' out of thin air?
Uh, you're the one who was saying it was such a certainty that the thing would attack and kill them that it rendered the quarantine procedure moot.
How about we look back at the point you made that I was actually responding to. You said Dallas was stupid/incompetent because:
He doesn't have a choice. The end. If he doesn't go, the Company withholds all of their money, and everyone likely loses their job for breaching their contract. He'd be stupid to ignore the order.
Horseshit. If your friend had a face-sucking alien strapped to his face you wouldn't stand outside a hospital saying "Yeah, no, it's cool, we'll just let him rape you until your procedures say you can try to save his life". If someone you were responsible for was in a car accident and you were told you couldn't call for an ambulance for at least a day afterwards, would you listen? Not unless you're a completely heartless arsehole. Which Dallas wasn't.
By Aliens, yes. By Alien, no, they're still being run by full crews.
My point was countering your erroneous point about the senior officer wanting to countermand quarantine.
The point is nothing exists in a bubble. Actions have repurcussions and influence future actions. Dallas is way more realistic - evne with the mistakes he makes, than Milburn who runs a mile from dead bodies (wouldn't a biologist be a little bit interested?), but make goo-goo eyes and new alien lifeforms (and the hammerpede scene doesn't even bug my in the slightest - but I can see why people would criticise it).
Why would anyone suspect that? Dallas interrogated Mother - she said she'd picked up a transmission and got them up to check it out. "He just runs the ship". Was he supposed to be omnipotent or something?
Simple answer is that Ash was already at Thedus. Why try and make up stuff to complicate things?
Same reason they didn't send a specific expedition. Cost/ potential security implications.
You'd have a point if this was in fact, the case.
However it's not. Anyone paying attention is perfectly capable of joining the dots. It's really very straightforward. And is reinforced by the events in Aliens and Alien3. Again, I don't know why anyone would want to try and complicate something to frightfully simple.
They sent the Nostromo because it was the closest company vessel in the area. It takes 10 months to get to Acheron from Earth. Had they bothered to put together another billion dollar company research mission like Prometheus, some other company with its truckersmustinvestigatestrangetransmissions clause might jump the area they were trying to search.
Outside information certainly helps fill in the logic gaps for stories that last days but are told in hours. I would be curious to understand how Shaw/whats his face found out about an alien solar system by a cave drawing in an infinite universe. I mean those cavemen painting for the engineer had to get those measurements exactly right for scientist hundreds of years in the future to get exact mathematical measurements for navigation........
Every movie has logic gaps.
Again I'm not sure as to the point that you're making. That 'context' can apply to anything and everything within a given film? Because that's not my notion of 'context' within a story or film.
Ok – whatever.
The Nostromo being "rerouted" is the correct use of the verb ... "rerouted" as in an action that took place in the past, as opposed to 'rerouting' an action taking place in the present or future tense. The use of the correct verb has absolutely nothing to do with whether the ship was rerouted before or after the Nostromo picked up the alien transmission. If, as you're trying to state, that the crew were actually rerouted prior to the transmission then why didn't any of the navigation crew question the original coordinates they received the transmission from? Surely someone would have said "where and when did we pick this transmission up?". This would have told them that something was wrong. Namely... that they were rerouted illegally? And then why would it be easier to get a trained medical android out to some backwater service station in space, to board the Nostromo, rather than send out a proper expedition? Why not just send Ash? Can't ships be piloted by a single android in the future? Again, the question is a rhetorical one because the narrative shouldn't require the viewer to make up their own explanations to counter the logic gaps e.g. "oh the company always knew about the signal and they just wilfully and purposely sent a random ship of ill prepared/ill equipped space truckers, because they thought it better to do it surreptitiously and risk coming away with nothing, rather than to generate unwanted attention from industrial competitors by sending an appropriate ship containing crew of scientists" etc. etc.
Ripley was senior officer, and she chose to abide by them.
Sure, if you want to cherry pick and ignore context. Go right ahead.
Nope.
Nope. The actual film has the Special Order that says 'Nostromo re-routed [past tense] to new co-ordinates'. The Company knew about the transmission and put Ash on board to ensure anything of value was returned - even if it killed the crew. Ripley repeats this at the enquiry in Aliens. "We set down there on Company orders". The crew just thought Mother picked the signal up by accident, meaning they were obliged to check it out as per their contract.
Haha, yup. Dat story advancement...
Rule four of headbite club is "after ignoring the black dude's advice, take the black dude's advice".
Rule three of headbite club is "ignore the back dude's insanely competent advice"
He's following his contractual obligation under threat of he and his entire crew forfeiting all of their money. Again, context.
Leaving the third officer and engineering staff aboard the ship to have it still flight capable.
A child would want to get the icky space monster cut off their friend's face as quickly as possible so it didn't hurt them. As would most compassionate people.
Everything he did can be explained in terms of character. He's consistent the whole way through: He cares about his crew to the point he f**ks up, he won't let them endanger themselves later, he goes alone into the vent to atone. On top of that, arguably the "dumbest" thing he did -- get Kane back on the ship -- is exactly what most people would try to do in that situation. If it hadn't been for Ash opening the door, Ripley would've done her job and kept them out.
To which the response is "yes", demonstrating how much it doesn't matter what you think when the film points out you're wrong.
f**k knows.
Yes they were. They're contractually obliged to investigate transmissions indicating intelligent origin and have quarantine procedures. Ash and Dallas just circumvented them.
That just makes him human. An attempt at atonement.
Then you're simply more interested in your own opinions than the reality of the story. Company obtains transmission (how may soon become clearer), deciphers it, reprogram the next ship going near that area of space to make it look like the ship picked it up by accident just in case there's anything of value, puts minder on board in the form of Ash.
Again you seem to be purposely misquoting. I didn't state any such thing... I alluded to the notion that describing a locked door on an airlock as being a 'quarantine process' was an overly generous description... and that perhaps a ship expected to check out alien life (it was in their contract remember) should have had a more robust and mature process for dealing with any dangerous life forms or infections.
It runs away of its own volition. Who knows what it would have done if cornered.
Completely disagree. Dallas is a shit captain.
1) He accepts a mission to a hostile environment not even questioning why they should be taking part in it or asking himself if they are capable.
2) He puts an away team in place consisting of both the captain and 2nd officer.
3) He should have returned to the Nostromo as soon as he lost communications with the Nostromo when approaching the derelict... Never proceed without comms.
4) He contravenes the supposed 'quarantine processes' and puts the entire crew in jeopardy. Everyone dies because of him not taking command and not following procedure that a child could follow.
5) He sends himself, the most senior officer, into the vent alone (when it would have easily taken two... which would have been at least a little safer) to trap the alien. Dallas was an idiot...
I think you are actually conflating 'tone' with character behaviour. I think Dallas is at least equally as stupid, but his stupidity is presented within the cointext of a darker, much scary/serious film. The tone of Prometheus is much more directed to under 18's and is not really a 'horror' film - IMHO.
I asked if it was "specific dialogue" from the film because I knew the part about Ripley was from the script... and even with script exerts, I don't think there's anything to establish why the company would chose the option of planting Ash on a tug ship rather than sending a dedicated crew/ship.
The point stands... I don't care if Weyland owns 40% and Burger King the rest, someone (be it solely or in partnership) had dibs over the planets and its resources... one assumes someone couldn't just roll up and plant a flag when it had been terraformed... hence in the SE where Lydecker asks "if the claim will be honoured".
Which you'd expect when someone was happy with what they did the first time.
I think Riddles cut it from the DC because it was a red flag about Ash.
Point conceded, but still. Film clearly states Ash was swapped out two days prior at Thedus.
It was indeed the plan and wasn't nonsensical in the slightest. It made perfect financial sense to obtain a specimen of whatever the warning was about - if indeed there was still anything alive - via the next ship going near that area of space, and make sure you have some insurance on board with a special order to follow. Much cheaper than mounting an expedition, that could amount to nothing. Cameron repeated this in the form of Burke in Aliens. Burke didn't want to make a security situation with the ECA just in case the ship didn't even exist. Whoever issued SO 937 was doing the same thing - they were out for themselves, but weren't dumb enough to put themselves in harms way like Burke did.
Saying their quarantine procedure should take into account the arbitrary gestation period of an organism no-one knows anything about is illogical. 24 hours is usually a pretty good length of time to see if someone's going to get worse from something.
And yet when I watch the movie, it runs away without even trying to fight anyone. They're not stupid.
Except Dallas and Milburn aren't at all similar. Context is important. Dallas spends the movie acting like a captain and makes a mistake (Which was wisely ignored by the person currently in charge of the ship) that he ends up paying for. The film justifies his actions. Prometheus doesn't justify Milburn's.
Yes. Immediately after Dallas agrees to let Ash keep the face hugger.
That's from IMDb, which seems to get the line from the DC. The TC has Dallas pointing out to Ripley she was also recently transferred. It's right there in the film.
I said WY isn't; I clarified above that I meant WY isn't the sole operator of the station. It's a joint operation, not a wholly corporate one.
Isn't that a logical consideration given, you know, their 'contractual obligation' to investigate signs of alien life???
That seems a rather big assumption given that this is an alien that has "acid for blood" and has big metal teeth. One would assume that such a "perfect organism" has the ability to aggressively defend itself... even an infant one. It's not like getting rid of a spider stuck in the bath.
Well that just sounds like you're trying to justify an irrational action/decision on Dallas' part... which is fine, but at least be willing to apply that reasoning to other films and situations (which is really my entire point).
Was that specific dialogue in the actual film?
Was that in the film? If they already had that information circa 6 months previously... then we're back to why send the Nostromo? Again, that the crew ended up dead and they, the company, didn't get their alien specimen further underlines what a hairbrained, nonsensical plan it was... if indeed there was ever a plan.
And that explanation suffers from the same gap in logic... So the company actually get their hands on an 'alien transmission'... I repeat, an actual 'alien transmission'... so the company in all its wisdom, and with all its resources at hand, send ill equipped truckers to investigate just for the sake of brevity... even though they go to the trouble of supplanting an android onboard. Why not just send an android rather than an expendable crew?
I think it implies much more than that... given everything we're shown on screen.
I'm not sure what you're suggesting? You said they weren't terraforming and VL refers to them as 'terraformers'...
What?
If you are going to try and make a point, at least make it vaguely coherent or at the minimum, relevant.
SO 937 would suggest that the Nostromo was rerouted before. 'Cos the Special Order Ash says 'Nostromo re-routed' (past tense). It implies that someone had arranged for it to be re-routed before leaving Thedus and Ash joining the crew.
The colony is a joint venture between the ECA and WY. Deleted dialogue talks about WY getting an advantage with mineral rights because of the joint venture. Any national or corporate ownership of the planet is never mentioned.
You've lost me here - what's the AP for if they're not terraforming?
All things considered - Kane would've likely been dead before quarantine was up.
That's irrelevant as you're now trying to argue the crew should have had quarantine procedures specifically to deal with something they've never encountered before.
The chest-burster ran from everyone the second it was born. All they would've had to do is open the outer lock and let it run off the ship. Dallas was also armed.
Dallas was scared and worried for the safety of his crew. Ripley was going by the book and doing what they were supposed to. There's a difference between "capable" and "willing".
It really doesn't.
No, but they can be expected to listen to dialogue in the movie, wherein Dallas plainly states that Ash was replaced two days before they left Thedus with Ash. And that Ripley was swapped for the previous Warrant Officer.
They didn't, they already had the transmission.
Same reason Burke did -- they didn't know what was there so they rerouted someone already going near. The Special Order just says to get a "specimen". It doesn't say of what.
Implies they're supplying the kit and have stakes in it, yes, implies they own the planet or the entire operation, no.
And at no point is WY mentioned.
That's pretty much irrelevant. Kane was already incubating the alien. We don't know that the alien's gestation period was shorter than the quarantine period. Ergo, even after quarantine, Kane would have still been brought onto the ship with aforementioned alien embryo inside. Even if they left them in the airlock (which isn't exactly the same as 'quarantine' by any stretch) Kane was still going to end up dead... possibly Dallas and Lambert too. Also, the fact that Ripley was the only one bothered about quarantine procedure and that Dallas, the captain, was not... aptly demonstrates their overall lack of capability to do the job in hand. Not that I blame them... they're just space truckers.
What the film heavily alludes to/implies is that the Nostromo is rerouted whilst the crew are in hypersleep, and that the crew already consists of Ash... Otherwise when they awake, they'd either be surprised by Ash's appearance or not surprised at the Nostromo's position.
What's Thedus? The audience can't be expected to read supplementary material to work out the logic of what's in the film. The film explicitly shows us that Ash is already a member of the crew, even if only a recent addition and the question still remains... how did the company know to put Ash onboard before the alien transmission was picked up? And if they knew about the alien transmission before, why send an ill equipped ship/crew? Of course that's a rhetorical question because we both know the answer... it's simply a convenience to allow for a reveal/shock later on in the story. Once we get to the "Ash is a god damn robot" scene, we are less interested in the internal logic of it.
I'll point you to the dialogue below... It heavily suggests that the colonists work for Weyland. Also, worth noting that the colonists wear uniforms with a 'Weyland' emblazed on them and to the "Building Better Worlds" logo which again implies some level of ownership.
VAN LEUWEN: There have been people there for over twenty years and they never complained about any hostile organism.
RIPLEY: What do you mean? What people?
VAN LEUWEN: Terraformers, planet engineers. They go in, set up these big atmosphere processors to make the air breathable. Takes decades. It's what we call a shake 'n bake colony.
Come to think of it, had someone actually listened to Parker when he was shouting, "Why don't you freeze him?", all their problems would've been prevented
As for the mistakes you then list people make, none of them are actually similar to what Milburn does. It's like a car driver seeing he's veering off the road and deciding this is exactly what he should be doing. The problems you list are oversights or problems with people getting complacent, none of which Milburn is shown doing. He's a firefighter looking at an inferno and saying "Oh, it's so bright and warm! I'm going to walk into it."
People are allowed to make mistakes. The problem is Milburn is only ever shown being worse at his job than somebody with no experience. This is what people call bullshit on.
No, they all died because the person who was planted on the ship by the Company to ensure a specimen was returned overruled the person currently in charge of the ship and violated basic quarantine procedure. Ripley was doing exactly what they should have in that situation under normal circumstances; forced them to stay the hell out of the ship for 24 hours. They had procedures in place to deal with these situations and the Company actively sought to circumvent them for their own gain.
I can't remember something that's not actually in the film, no. The exact time the ship was rerouted isn't explicitly stated.
Why are you assuming Ash wasn't already at Thedus? Clearly there are Company crew at the fueling stations and getting transferred somewhat regularly as Ripley was also transferred to the Nostromo at the same time.
There's nothing that says it is, plenty in the SE strongly suggesting it isn't.
They aren't terraforming, period. It's a colonial outpost. WY provides the tech.
The craploads of money they charge for their AP stations.
"Thin" in so much as space truckers having that remit stretches belief and the fact that there are scientists who do silly things. This is about willing suspension of disbelief... and the associated tolerance levels.
So remember the Nostromo was rerouted after Ash was put on board, not before, right? So how did the company know to put Ash onboard before the Nostromo picked up an alien transmission? And common sense tells you that (giving the film the benefit of the doubt) if they had previous Intel on alien transmissions, and had the ability/time to get Ash to a location to board the Nostromo, they'd have the ability to get, you know, a 'professional/professionals' out there? Why wouldn't they? What would they lose 48hrs??? Just to send ill equipped, unskilled people out?
There's nothing in the film that states that LV426 isn't owned by the company. Weyland are an aggressive, greedy corporate organisation right? They are not terraforming for the love of it. What would be the point of having presence there if not to claim the resources etc?
Why refer to the colonists as "planet engineers", build huge atmosphere processors if it only applies to Hadley's Hope colony?
And the point being is that there was no reason why Burke wouldn't have been cautious, or at least used his brain, because if Ripley's story were to be true, the person "checking it out" would be fecked... and he'd be back at square one. It would be a bit like hearing a noise downstairs at night, not knowing if it were an intruder, waking up your wife and asking her to get you a coke from the kitchen.
That's not accurate. The subterfuge started when he asked someone to "go check it out" knowing that it was dangerous, and continued when he didn't disclose this information to the company, Ripley or the marines. That information would have probably resulted in a different approach.
Not really because, as it stands, Milburn and Fifields characters had both been established by that point... so it would have been difficult to just force someone else into that situation. I agree though, Scott could have established another character earlier on that wasn't Fifield or Milburn and have them encounter the Hammerpede alone... which could have led to a more scary scene. Remember, I'm not arguing against the notion that the scene could have been made more effective, I'm arguing that it has little to do with how believable Milburn is as a character.
If you are going to try and respond, at least engage the brain a little... Prometheus "clearly points out" that Milburn and Fifield get lost. It also establishes that Milburn is a biologist and is happy to try and pet an alien snake. So by your reasoning, that's a perfectly fine because the film establishes the points in question. Fine - case closed then.
Where in your reading comprehension skills did you find me saying 'It WASN'T dumb?"
Didn't I specifically say, "Yes, it is dumb. But what's dumber, is thinking smart people don't do dumb things?"
I also didn't say people are allowed to do stupid things. I never even said it wasn't stupid. Im saying its silly to assume a scientist wouldn't do something stupid. It makes me think you have some crazy ideal for how scientists behave, and have never known or spoken to people who are involved in research. They are just like everybody else. They do stupid things and make silly mistakes all the time. They drop glasses down the garbage disposal. They miss the bowl when they pee because they didn't get enough coffee.
And for the record: When a guitar player effs up, or a pilot crashes a plane it is ABSOLUTELY and RESEARCHED and DOCUMENTED that they do so because they make a bunch of silly mistakes, like not eating right, not getting enough sleep that night, overlooking some minor detail, or getting distracted by a piece of ass. Even the most objective person in the world is still working against their own subjective impulses and they fail at it sooner or later.
How many people who drive cars, forget to change their oil and fluids or even get enough gas and break down? Or rush to work because they forgot to set their alarms and cause an accident? Do you suppose those people aren't good at driving? That the only people who make glaring behavioral mistakes when driving are those who don't know how to drive? If you want to stats involved, the truth is, the MORE you do something the more likely you are to make mistakes doing it.