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Prometheus Sequel Set for March 2016?

According to The Wrap, Ridley Scott’s sequel to Prometheus is set for a March 2016 release. Production will allegedly begin this fall after the director is finished with his upcoming film, Exodus. Additionally, Green Lantern writer Michael Green has been brought on board to re-write the original draft for Prometheus 2 by Jack Paglen.

Prometheus served as an unofficial prequel to Scott’s seminal 1979 sci-fi movie Alien, and the sequel that Green will write aims to be much more alien-y and in line with the terrifying tone of past films in the franchise. Additionally, the sequel is expected to feature multiple David androids, which means there will be more than one Michael Fassbender on screen at the same time, according to an individual familiar with the project.”

Thanks to Gazz for the news.



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  1. redalert51
    It seems like forever, and a huge tease . I really enjoyed " Prometheus " , We will be hard pressed to see a sequel by 2016. Look at the sequels , By " Marvel" two years
    apart or so for good old Cap and co...       
  2. Elmazalman
    Quote

    Clearly you expect wrong.
    Clearly I don’t readily accept these type of contrivances.

    Because they were incapable of seeing the future.
    Crew were deemed expendable.  Obviously they didn't expect them to scuttle the ship, but insurance would've ultimately covered the loss.
    So they send a ship to investigate alien transmissions and don’t think of the potential scenarios? They don’t play that out in their heads AT ALL? Is everyone, sans Ripley, in the ‘Alien’ universe a moron? “Hey we’ve just received alien transmissions indicating intelligent life in the cosmos, at coordinates X, Y and Z, which could change the nature of our existence, the universe and make us unimaginably rich. What should we do?”. “Mmm - Just order a pizza for delivery at that location and we’ll let pizza dude check it out for us”...


    Quote

    I'm going by the reasons cited by Burke.  As previously mentioned Cameron copied the setup for Alien in Aliens. Burke went fishing with the colonists the same way whoever issued SO937 did.
    I still don’t understand what those security issues are? Burke certainly doesn’t expand upon them - so why should I presume there were security issues x amount of years earlier during the events of Alien? Why are you so willing to accept information presented in films you like?

    Quote

    He wasn't in the vicinity.
    The ‘vicinity’ as in the ‘vicinity’ of the Nostromo. Are we now to assume that Ash was just conveniently boxed up and waiting to be activated? Why didn’t Ash just requisition the Nostromo. Why didn’t the company request the Nostromo leave its cargo at the space station and then travel to the planetoid? Surely that would have made the trip quicker and less risky (in terms of putting the cargo in jeopardy)?

    Quote

    So they wouldn't suspect anything when they woke up half way home.

    Suspect what exactly? It still doesn’t explain the subterfuge. Why not just say “we’re diverting you to investigate alien transmissions and we’ve put Ash on board to lead the investigation”? Why present him as the science officer when they could have put him on board as the captain? The subterfuge suggests that the ‘company’ knew that the missions could be deadly/dangerous? Otherwise why keep the facts from the inexperienced, ill equipped crew? But then it comes back to, so why if the company suspect this, and go through the trouble of all the subterfuge, do they not just send an equipped crew/ship in the first place with Ash masquerading as the scientist officer? It don’t make sense.

    Quote

    Nope it's not complicated and yes it is borne out by basic logic.  How people make the same mistakes you do is frankly baffling.
    Quote

    What it suggests to me is that people who aren’t willing to turn the same spotlight on the films they like are either lacking or just a tad hypocritical. You endlessly stating “yes it does – it says so in the film” and creating your own scenarios is not a defence.

    Quote

    Possibly.  You could also tie it in to the while thing about the Nostromo being sent in the first place.  Company = cheap.
    Yes - You could “tie it in” if you were just making excuses and trying to defend blatant contrivances and logic gaps. Which of course you’re not...


    Quote

    Dallas the tug pilot was out of his element.  Janek (whom I generally dig as a character) didn't even offer the rest of his largely nameless non-bridge crew the opportunity to evacuate.
    Something we agree about. Prometheus does exactly the same... My point.


    Quote

    Bishop is essentially the 'crew' of the Sulaco.  In the script he was awake (a la David) and handled all the actual flying of the ship - so not out of thin air.
    Which is the point I was making... There’s no evidence to suggest that ships can’t be piloted by a single pilot... specifically an android... Why couldn’t Ash do what David and Bishop did?

    Quote
    Face-huggers die after implantation, this was always the case. The quarantine procedure not accounting for a hitherto-unknown parasitic acid-bleeding space monster does not make the quarantine procedure redundant.
    Quote
    That’s never stated in the films. We see it dead after it's impregnated Kane, but we don't know if it was capable of impregnating more than once if an immediate opportunity presented itself. I think you've read too many comics.

    Quote
    Nostromo -- seven crew.
    Sulaco -- one.

    You do actually watch these films, yes?
    Really??? I’m beginning to question whether you’ve watched these films recently. Where is the specific dialogue in Alien (or Aliens) that ‘ships’ cannot be piloted by a single occupant? In 2014 a single pilot is capable of landing a jumbo jet right?
    Nostromo is piloted from both the bridge and engineering,on C-deck.A crew member would have to be in two places at once.
  3. SiL
    Quote
    That’s never stated in the films. We see it dead after it's impregnated Kane, but we don't know if it was capable of impregnating more than once if an immediate opportunity presented itself.
    :laugh: Oh boy are you grasping at straws. It's never stated bullets kill Aliens, either, so I guess it's fair to say all the Aliens that ever got shot to death were just stunned and woke up later :laugh:
  4. Darth Vile
    Quote

    Clearly you expect wrong.
    Clearly I don’t readily accept these type of contrivances.

    Because they were incapable of seeing the future.
    Crew were deemed expendable.  Obviously they didn't expect them to scuttle the ship, but insurance would've ultimately covered the loss.
    So they send a ship to investigate alien transmissions and don’t think of the potential scenarios? They don’t play that out in their heads AT ALL? Is everyone, sans Ripley, in the ‘Alien’ universe a moron? “Hey we’ve just received alien transmissions indicating intelligent life in the cosmos, at coordinates X, Y and Z, which could change the nature of our existence, the universe and make us unimaginably rich. What should we do?”. “Mmm - Just order a pizza for delivery at that location and we’ll let pizza dude check it out for us”...


    Quote

    I'm going by the reasons cited by Burke.  As previously mentioned Cameron copied the setup for Alien in Aliens. Burke went fishing with the colonists the same way whoever issued SO937 did.
    I still don’t understand what those security issues are? Burke certainly doesn’t expand upon them - so why should I presume there were security issues x amount of years earlier during the events of Alien? Why are you so willing to accept information presented in films you like?

    Quote

    He wasn't in the vicinity.
    The ‘vicinity’ as in the ‘vicinity’ of the Nostromo. Are we now to assume that Ash was just conveniently boxed up and waiting to be activated? Why didn’t Ash just requisition the Nostromo. Why didn’t the company request the Nostromo leave its cargo at the space station and then travel to the planetoid? Surely that would have made the trip quicker and less risky (in terms of putting the cargo in jeopardy)?

    Quote

    So they wouldn't suspect anything when they woke up half way home.

    Suspect what exactly? It still doesn’t explain the subterfuge. Why not just say “we’re diverting you to investigate alien transmissions and we’ve put Ash on board to lead the investigation”? Why present him as the science officer when they could have put him on board as the captain? The subterfuge suggests that the ‘company’ knew that the missions could be deadly/dangerous? Otherwise why keep the facts from the inexperienced, ill equipped crew? But then it comes back to, so why if the company suspect this, and go through the trouble of all the subterfuge, do they not just send an equipped crew/ship in the first place with Ash masquerading as the scientist officer? It don’t make sense.

    Quote

    Nope it's not complicated and yes it is borne out by basic logic.  How people make the same mistakes you do is frankly baffling.
    Quote

    What it suggests to me is that people who aren’t willing to turn the same spotlight on the films they like are either lacking or just a tad hypocritical. You endlessly stating “yes it does – it says so in the film” and creating your own scenarios is not a defence.

    Quote

    Possibly.  You could also tie it in to the while thing about the Nostromo being sent in the first place.  Company = cheap.
    Yes - You could “tie it in” if you were just making excuses and trying to defend blatant contrivances and logic gaps. Which of course you’re not...


    Quote

    Dallas the tug pilot was out of his element.  Janek (whom I generally dig as a character) didn't even offer the rest of his largely nameless non-bridge crew the opportunity to evacuate.
    Something we agree about. Prometheus does exactly the same... My point.


    Quote

    Bishop is essentially the 'crew' of the Sulaco.  In the script he was awake (a la David) and handled all the actual flying of the ship - so not out of thin air.
    Which is the point I was making... There’s no evidence to suggest that ships can’t be piloted by a single pilot... specifically an android... Why couldn’t Ash do what David and Bishop did?

    Quote
    Face-huggers die after implantation, this was always the case. The quarantine procedure not accounting for a hitherto-unknown parasitic acid-bleeding space monster does not make the quarantine procedure redundant.
    Quote
    That’s never stated in the films. We see it dead after it's impregnated Kane, but we don't know if it was capable of impregnating more than once if an immediate opportunity presented itself. I think you've read too many comics.

    Quote
    Nostromo -- seven crew.
    Sulaco -- one.

    You do actually watch these films, yes?
    Really??? I’m beginning to question whether you’ve watched these films recently. Where is the specific dialogue in Alien (or Aliens) that ‘ships’ cannot be piloted by a single occupant? In 2014 a single pilot is capable of landing a jumbo jet right?
  5. SiL
    Quote
    Nope... the point wasn’t in relation to the quarantine procedure. It was in reference to Ash’s intervention. You, or SM, were stating that if they’d been left in the airlock only Kane would have died... and I was simply pointing out that we don’t know that. We don’t know what the facehugger would have done once finished with Kane. Would it curl up and die or try and impregnate someone else if in the immediate vicinity.? We don’t know what the chestburster was capable of. Dallas may have very well of just stamped on its head with a big boot, but its not a given.
    Face-huggers die after implantation, this was always the case. The quarantine procedure not accounting for a hitherto-unknown parasitic acid-bleeding space monster does not make the quarantine procedure redundant.

    Quote
    Where in the film does it state that or is that another factoid you’re just pullin’ out of thin air?
    Nostromo -- seven crew.
    Sulaco -- one.

    You do actually watch these films, yes?
  6. SM
    Quote
    I’d expect any captain, pilot or navigator to check/confirm at which point on their course they picked up a transmission/distress beacon. It’s part of the detail that lends to more believability.

    Clearly you expect wrong.

    Quote
    Why would it be more costly when it obviously cost them the Nostromo and all its cargo anyway (that’s what happens when you don;t send the right people for the right job)?

    Because they were incapable of seeing the future.
    Crew were deemed expendable.  Obviously they didn't expect them to scuttle the ship, but insurance would've ultimately covered the loss.

    Quote
    What were the security issues (I’ve never heard of those???

    I'm going by the reasons cited by Burke.  As previously mentioned Cameron copied the setup for Alien in Aliens.  Burke went fishing with the colonists the same way whoever issued SO937 did.

    Quote
    Why not send Ash on his own if he was already in the vicinity?

    He wasn't in the vicinity.

    Quote
    Why did he have to pretend to be... 1) Human? 2) A science officer crewmember of Nostromo?

    So they wouldn't suspect anything when they woke up half way home.

    Quote
    That complicated explanation for the company’s rationale when that rationale is not borne out of any disenable logic presented in the film?

    Nope it's not complicated and yes it is borne out by basic logic.  How people make the same mistakes you do is frankly baffling.

    Quote
    when Alien is under the microscope, it too is far from perfect

    Perfect? No.  Far from perfect?  Also no.

    Quote
    It’s of course a contrivance to allow for Ripley’s escape, but for it not to be an option prior to the deaths of Kane, Brett, Dallas and Ash. It serves the story fine, but when you start to examine the logic/detail, it doesn’t stack up.

    Possibly.  You could also tie it in to the while thing about the Nostromo being sent in the first place.  Company = cheap.

    Quote
    Ergo, he was short sighted and not a very good commanding officer.

    Dallas the tug pilot was out of his element.  Janek (whom I generally dig as a character) didn't even offer the rest of his largely nameless non-bridge crew the opportunity to evacuate.

    Quote
    Where in the film does it state that or is that another factoid you’re just pullin’ out of thin air?

    Bishop is essentially the 'crew' of the Sulaco.  In the script he was awake (a la David) and handled all the actual flying of the ship - so not out of thin air.
  7. Darth Vile
    My point was countering your erroneous point about the senior officer wanting to countermand quarantine.
    I’m not sure that it was ‘erroneous point’ when it was in response to a misjudged attempt at arguing that the Nostromo had a rigorous/robust process for investigating alien transmissions??? A single locked door does not constitute a rigorous quarantine process. And a captain who is prepared to circumnavigate that aforementioned ‘sticky tape and glue’ procedure cannot, in any seriousness, be deemed ‘well equipped’. That one attempts to explain away these logic gaps/conveniences and contrivances in Alien (or in any film one values), but to then readily critique such things in Prometheus is the point I’m trying to make. One has to apply the same measure to both films in order to view it as objectively as possible.

     
    The point is nothing exists in a bubble.  Actions have repurcussions and influence future actions.  Dallas is way more realistic - evne with the mistakes he makes, than Milburn who runs a mile from dead bodies (wouldn't a biologist be a little bit interested?), but make goo-goo eyes and new alien lifeforms (and the hammerpede scene doesn't even bug my in the slightest - but I can see why people would criticise it).
    As I pointed out before, I think you’re conflating ‘tone’ with ‘character’ and/or ‘character behaviour’. Alien appears more ‘realistic’ not because of any innate acting skill of the actors involved or dialogue per se, but because of the approach that Scott chooses to take. Alien has a much more ‘natural’ approach in terms of lighting, camera set up, dialogue. Prometheus is much more based in ‘fantasy’ and its style is much more a ‘hyper-reality’ one - in terms of dialogue, lighting etc. etc. It’s an aesthetic choice on the filmmaker’s part... and is not a consequence of a lack of technical application. It’s like comparing the behaviour of the characters in 2001:ASO to Star Trek when they are both trying to achieve completely different things.

    Why would anyone suspect that?  Dallas interrogated Mother - she said she'd picked up a transmission and got them up to check it out.  "He just runs the ship". Was he supposed to be omnipotent or something?
    I’d expect any captain, pilot or navigator to check/confirm at which point on their course they picked up a transmission/distress beacon. It’s part of the detail that lends to more believability.

    Simple answer is that Ash was already at Thedus.  Why try and make up stuff to complicate things?

    Same reason they didn't send a specific expedition.  Cost/ potential security implications.
    But there you go trying to justify things that are not in the film... Why would it be more costly when it obviously cost them the Nostromo and all its cargo anyway (that’s what happens when you don;t send the right people for the right job)? What were the security issues (I’ve never heard of those??? Why not send Ash on his own if he was already in the vicinity? Why did he have to pretend to be... 1) Human? 2) A science officer crewmember of Nostromo?

    You'd have a point if this was in fact, the case.

    However it's not.  Anyone paying attention is perfectly capable of joining the dots.  It's really very straightforward.  And is reinforced by the events in Aliens and Alien3.  Again, I don't know why anyone would want to try and complicate something to frightfully simple.

    But that’s what you’re alluding to isn’t it? That complicated explanation for the company’s rationale when that rationale is not borne out of any disenable logic presented in the film? That you accept it without question is great. I’m happy to accept it as well... but I’m merely pointing out that when Alien is under the microscope, it too is far from perfect. For example, as I pointed out before... Why have only a single escape shuttle that can’t even take 50% of the crew? It’s of course a contrivance to allow for Ripley’s escape, but for it not to be an option prior to the deaths of Kane, Brett, Dallas and Ash. It serves the story fine, but when you start to examine the logic/detail, it doesn’t stack up.



    Dallas' seniority didn't count for jack while he was in the lock. The person whose seniority did matter followed protocol. What Dallas ordered was irrelevant because he wasn't in charge.
    It did as soon as he was back in the ship.

    Uh, you're the one who was saying it was such a certainty that the thing would attack and kill them that it rendered the quarantine procedure moot.
    Nope... the point wasn’t in relation to the quarantine procedure. It was in reference to Ash’s intervention. You, or SM, were stating that if they’d been left in the airlock only Kane would have died... and I was simply pointing out that we don’t know that. We don’t know what the facehugger would have done once finished with Kane. Would it curl up and die or try and impregnate someone else if in the immediate vicinity.? We don’t know what the chestburster was capable of. Dallas may have very well of just stamped on its head with a big boot, but its not a given.

    How about we look back at the point you made that I was actually responding to. You said Dallas was stupid/incompetent because:

    Horseshit. If your friend had a face-sucking alien strapped to his face you wouldn't stand outside a hospital saying "Yeah, no, it's cool, we'll just let him rape you until your procedures say you can try to save his life". If someone you were responsible for was in a car accident and you were told you couldn't call for an ambulance for at least a day afterwards, would you listen? Not unless you're a completely heartless arsehole. Which Dallas wasn't.
    What a ridiculous comparison. A captain’s responsibility is to his ship and the entire crew. He/she has to view things holistically, logically, objectively... that’s the difference between those in charge that make decisions and those who get told what to do. Great... Dallas is a ‘people’ person... but it certainly didn’t do the rest of the crew, the ship or its cargo any good. Ergo, he was short sighted and not a very good commanding officer.

    By Aliens, yes. By Alien, no, they're still being run by full crews.
    Where in the film does it state that or is that another factoid you’re just pullin’ out of thin air? ;)
  8. SiL
    Ripley was senior officer, and she chose to abide by them.
    And your point being?
    Dallas' seniority didn't count for jack while he was in the lock. The person whose seniority did matter followed protocol. What Dallas ordered was irrelevant because he wasn't in charge.

    Quote
    Again it’s an assumption on your part. The door was closed. Who knows what the alien would have done without an immediate point of escape. Perhaps it would have died of fright; perhaps it would have ripped their throats out. Who knows??? I’m simply stating that we can only guess at what would have happened if the alien burst out of Kane in the airlock ... whereas you seem to think it’s a given...
    Uh, you're the one who was saying it was such a certainty that the thing would attack and kill them that it rendered the quarantine procedure moot.

    Quote
    Just paraphrasing dialogue ad infinitum doesn’t make it any more believable that space truckers would be contractually obliged to check out alien transmissions...especially when they are shown to be clearly working outside of their capabilities. That dialogue doesn’t really provide the ‘context’ of which you speak. Context still has to reflect internal logic (the internal logic of a lifeboat that doesn’t even accommodate 50% of the crew???). Context is, for example, the scenes showing Lambert as an emotionally wrung out person prior to her death scene. The ‘context’ explains her irrational behaviour of looking like a rabbit caught in headlights when confronted by the alien...
    How about we look back at the point you made that I was actually responding to. You said Dallas was stupid/incompetent because:

    Quote
    1) He accepts a mission to a hostile environment not even questioning why they should be taking part in it or asking himself if they are capable.
    He doesn't have a choice. The end. If he doesn't go, the Company withholds all of their money, and everyone likely loses their job for breaching their contract. He'd be stupid to ignore the order.

    Quote
    No... I think most people would recognise that if there’s something outside that could jeopardise the entire ship and crew... you’d leave it outside until you believed it safe.
    Horseshit. If your friend had a face-sucking alien strapped to his face you wouldn't stand outside a hospital saying "Yeah, no, it's cool, we'll just let him rape you until your procedures say you can try to save his life". If someone you were responsible for was in a car accident and you were told you couldn't call for an ambulance for at least a day afterwards, would you listen? Not unless you're a completely heartless arsehole. Which Dallas wasn't.

    Quote
    Can’t ships be piloted by a single android in the future
    By Aliens, yes. By Alien, no, they're still being run by full crews.
  9. SM
    Quote
    And your point being?

    My point was countering your erroneous point about the senior officer wanting to countermand quarantine.

    Quote
    Again I’m not sure as to the point that you’re making. That ‘context’ can apply to anything and everything within a given film? Because that’s not my notion of ‘context’ within a story or film.

    The point is nothing exists in a bubble.  Actions have repurcussions and influence future actions.  Dallas is way more realistic - evne with the mistakes he makes, than Milburn who runs a mile from dead bodies (wouldn't a biologist be a little bit interested?), but make goo-goo eyes and new alien lifeforms (and the hammerpede scene doesn't even bug my in the slightest - but I can see why people would criticise it).

    Quote
    . If, as you’re trying to state, that the crew were actually rerouted prior to the transmission then why didn’t any of the navigation crew question the original coordinates they received the transmission from? Surely someone would have said “where and when did we pick this transmission up?”. This would have told them that something was wrong. Namely... that they were rerouted illegally?

    Why would anyone suspect that?  Dallas interrogated Mother - she said she'd picked up a transmission and got them up to check it out.  "He just runs the ship". Was he supposed to be omnipotent or something?

    Quote
    And then why would it be easier to get a trained medical android out to some backwater service station in space, to board the Nostromo, rather than send out a proper expedition?

    Simple answer is that Ash was already at Thedus.  Why try and make up stuff to complicate things?

    Quote
    Why not just send Ash? Can’t ships be piloted by a single android in the future

    Same reason they didn't send a specific expedition.  Cost/ potential security implications.

    Quote
    Again, the question is a rhetorical one because the narrative shouldn’t require the viewer to make up their own explanations to counter the logic gaps e.g. “oh the company always knew about the signal and they just wilfully and purposely sent a random ship of ill prepared/ill equipped space truckers, because they thought it better to do it surreptitiously and risk coming away with nothing, rather than to generate unwanted attention from industrial competitors by sending an appropriate ship containing crew of scientists” etc. etc. 

    You'd have a point if this was in fact, the case.

    However it's not.  Anyone paying attention is perfectly capable of joining the dots.  It's really very straightforward.  And is reinforced by the events in Aliens and Alien3.  Again, I don't know why anyone would want to try and complicate something to frightfully simple.
  10. Kimarhi
    They weren't rerouted illegally.  ITS IN THEIR MOTHERf**kING CONTRACT.  They didn't have to set down on the planet if they didn't want to.  But they wouldn't have made any money either.


    They sent the Nostromo because it was the closest company vessel in the area.  It takes 10 months to get to Acheron from Earth.  Had they bothered to put together another billion dollar company research mission like Prometheus, some other company with its truckersmustinvestigatestrang etransmissions clause might jump the area they were trying to search. 

    Outside information certainly helps fill in the logic gaps for stories that last days but are told in hours.  I would be curious to understand how Shaw/whats his face found out about an alien solar system by a cave drawing in an infinite universe.  I mean those cavemen painting for the engineer had to get those measurements exactly right for scientist hundreds of years in the future to get exact mathematical measurements for navigation........

    Every movie has logic gaps. 
  11. Darth Vile
    Ripley was senior officer, and she chose to abide by them.
    And your point being?

    Sure, if you want to cherry pick and ignore context.  Go right ahead.
    Again I’m not sure as to the point that you’re making. That ‘context’ can apply to anything and everything within a given film? Because that’s not my notion of ‘context’ within a story or film.

    Nope.
    Ok – whatever.

    Nope.  The actual film has the Special Order that says 'Nostromo re-routed [past tense] to new co-ordinates'.  The Company knew about the transmission and put Ash on board to ensure anything of value was returned - even if it killed the crew.  Ripley repeats this at the enquiry in Aliens.  "We set down there on Company orders".  The crew just thought Mother picked the signal up by accident, meaning they were obliged to check it out as per their contract.
    The Nostromo being “rerouted” is the correct use of the verb ... “rerouted” as in an action that took place in the past, as opposed to ‘rerouting’ an action taking place in the present or future tense. The use of the correct verb has absolutely nothing to do with whether the ship was rerouted before or after the Nostromo picked up the alien transmission. If, as you’re trying to state, that the crew were actually rerouted prior to the transmission then why didn’t any of the navigation crew question the original coordinates they received the transmission from? Surely someone would have said “where and when did we pick this transmission up?”. This would have told them that something was wrong. Namely... that they were rerouted illegally? And then why would it be easier to get a trained medical android out to some backwater service station in space, to board the Nostromo, rather than send out a proper expedition? Why not just send Ash? Can’t ships be piloted by a single android in the future? Again, the question is a rhetorical one because the narrative shouldn’t require the viewer to make up their own explanations to counter the logic gaps e.g. “oh the company always knew about the signal and they just wilfully and purposely sent a random ship of ill prepared/ill equipped space truckers, because they thought it better to do it surreptitiously and risk coming away with nothing, rather than to generate unwanted attention from industrial competitors by sending an appropriate ship containing crew of scientists” etc. etc. 
  12. SM
    Quote
    Then the quarantine procedures are nil and void if the most senior person on the ship chooses to “circumvent them”.

    Ripley was senior officer, and she chose to abide by them.

    Quote
    You’re projecting... Besides – are you now stating that characters making stupid decisions/mistakes makes them more “human”? Yep – I’d agree... and I apply that principle to other films too, where applicable.

    Sure, if you want to cherry pick and ignore context.  Go right ahead.

    Quote
    You stated something like “the filmmakers should expect audiences to listen to the dialogue” and then proceeded to quote from a script with dialogue not used in the film.

    Nope.

    Quote
    I’d also ask where in the film it’s stated that the Nostromo wasn’t rerouted when it picked up the alien transmissions??? That is not only not stated, it’s not even implied. What would make more sense is that the Nostromo picked up the transmissions, rereouted and woke up the crew (that’s what the actual film implies). Ash being a company man, and android, then communicated with ‘the company’ and they gave him his special order. However, this then creates the gap about why Ash was on board in the first place.

    The problem with your explanation is you’re forced to concoct a conspiracy theory involving the company... ‘they already new about the alien transmissions’... to explain the shortfalls in logic. Perhaps that explanaition is better than what's in the actual film... but it's the actual film we're debating.

    Nope.  The actual film has the Special Order that says 'Nostromo re-routed [past tense] to new co-ordinates'.  The Company knew about the transmission and put Ash on board to ensure anything of value was returned - even if it killed the crew.  Ripley repeats this at the enquiry in Aliens.  "We set down there on Company orders".  The crew just thought Mother picked the signal up by accident, meaning they were obliged to check it out as per their contract.
  13. Darth Vile
    Yes they were.  They're contractually obliged to investigate transmissions indicating intelligent origin and have quarantine procedures.  Ash and Dallas just circumvented them.
    Then the quarantine procedures are nil and void if the most senior person on the ship chooses to “circumvent them”.

    That just makes him human.  An attempt at atonement.
    You’re projecting... Besides – are you now stating that characters making stupid decisions/mistakes makes them more “human”? Yep – I’d agree... and I apply that principle to other films too, where applicable.

    Then you're simply more interested in your own opinions than the reality of the story.  Company obtains transmission (how may soon become clearer), deciphers it, reprogram the next ship going near that area of space to make it look like the ship picked it up by accident just in case there's anything of value, puts minder on board in the form of Ash.
    That’s an odd reply? You stated something like “the filmmakers should expect audiences to listen to the dialogue” and then proceeded to quote from a script with dialogue not used in the film. I was trying to politely point out that you were using inaccurate quotes...

    I’d also ask where in the film it’s stated that the Nostromo wasn’t rerouted when it picked up the alien transmissions??? That is not only not stated, it’s not even implied. What would make more sense is that the Nostromo picked up the transmissions, rereouted and woke up the crew (that’s what the actual film implies). Ash being a company man, and android, then communicated with ‘the company’ and they gave him his special order. However, this then creates the gap about why Ash was on board in the first place.

    The problem with your explanation is you’re forced to concoct a conspiracy theory involving the company... ‘they already new about the alien transmissions’... to explain the shortfalls in logic. Perhaps that explanaition is better than what's in the actual film... but it's the actual film we're debating.  :)

    They wouldn't corner it, they'd open the door.
    Again it’s an assumption on your part. The door was closed. Who knows what the alien would have done without an immediate point of escape. Perhaps it would have died of fright; perhaps it would have ripped their throats out. Who knows??? I’m simply stating that we can only guess at what would have happened if the alien burst out of Kane in the airlock ... whereas you seem to think it’s a given...

    He's following his contractual obligation under threat of he and his entire crew forfeiting all of their money. Again context.
    Just paraphrasing dialogue ad infinitum doesn’t make it any more believable that space truckers would be contractually obliged to check out alien transmissions... especially when they are shown to be clearly working outside of their capabilities. That dialogue doesn’t really provide the ‘context’ of which you speak. Context still has to reflect internal logic (the internal logic of a lifeboat that doesn’t even accommodate 50% of the crew???). Context is, for example, the scenes showing Lambert as an emotionally wrung out person prior to her death scene. The ‘context’ explains her irrational behaviour of looking like a rabbit caught in headlights when confronted by the alien... not wanting to show you how to suck eggs by the way.


    Leaving the third officer and engineering staff aboard the ship to have it still flight capable.
    I’m not sure that’s the point is it??? For all we know everyone had the ability to pilot the ship. The point is that I don't believe it would be normal behaviour, nor sensible, to take your 2 most experienced officers away from the ship. That’s not standard maritime behaviour, why should it be standard in space?

    A child would want to get the icky space monster cut off their friend's face as quickly as possible so it didn't hurt them. As would most compassionate people.
    No... I think most people would recognise that if there’s something outside that could jeopardise the entire ship and crew... you’d leave it outside until you believed it safe. That the 3rd officer respected this, and that she survived, just shows how stupid/incompetent Dallas was.

    Everything he did can be explained in terms of character. He's consistent the whole way through: He cares about his crew to the point he f**ks up, he won't let them endanger themselves later, he goes alone into the vent to atone. On top of that, arguably the "dumbest" thing he did -- get Kane back on the ship -- is exactly what most people would try to do in that situation. If it hadn't been for Ash opening the door, Ripley would've done her job and kept them out.
    Yes – consistent like Fifield and Milburn. Dallas doesn’t make one sensible choice or decision in the entire film? Even with Ash opening the airlock, Dallas should have said “no we still need to follow quarantine procedures”. His direct actions, his failure to follow protocol, resulted in the deaths of the crew. Yes – this can be explained by stating he wasn’t very good. Maybe he was an inexperienced captain? But you’re excusing his actions just like you accuse others of excusing Ffierld and Milburn’s. That doesn’t seem a consistent critique on your part... and sometimes it can be harder to critique the films we like... wouldn't you say?

    To which the response is "yes", demonstrating how much it doesn't matter what you think when the film points out you're wrong.

    The contention isn’t about what the implication or inference is, but rather about the logic of it... I thought that was part of your beef with Prometheus? Is ‘if it’s in the movie then its ok’ a suitable defence for every such gripe now?
  14. DoomRulz
    The logic, or lack of logic, is borne out in the actual film... they all died because they were not equipped or experienced enough to deal with the situation.
    No, they all died because the person who was planted on the ship by the Company to ensure a specimen was returned overruled the person currently in charge of the ship and violated basic quarantine procedure. Ripley was doing exactly what they should have in that situation under normal circumstances; forced them to stay the hell out of the ship for 24 hours. They had procedures in place to deal with these situations and the Company actively sought to circumvent them for their own gain.

    Come to think of it, had someone actually listened to Parker when he shouting, "Why don't you freeze him?", all their problems would've been prevented :P

    Rule three of headbite club is "ignore the back dude's insanely competent advice"

    Haha, yup. Dat story advancement...
  15. Xhan
    The logic, or lack of logic, is borne out in the actual film... they all died because they were not equipped or experienced enough to deal with the situation.
    No, they all died because the person who was planted on the ship by the Company to ensure a specimen was returned overruled the person currently in charge of the ship and violated basic quarantine procedure. Ripley was doing exactly what they should have in that situation under normal circumstances; forced them to stay the hell out of the ship for 24 hours. They had procedures in place to deal with these situations and the Company actively sought to circumvent them for their own gain.

    Come to think of it, had someone actually listened to Parker when he shouting, "Why don't you freeze him?", all their problems would've been prevented :P

    Rule three of headbite club is "ignore the back dude's insanely competent advice"
  16. SiL
    It runs away of its own volition. Who knows what it would have done if cornered.
    They wouldn't corner it, they'd open the door.

    Quote
    1) He accepts a mission to a hostile environment not even questioning why they should be taking part in it or asking himself if they are capable.
    He's following his contractual obligation under threat of he and his entire crew forfeiting all of their money. Again, context.

    Quote
    2) He puts an away team in place consisting of both the captain and 2nd officer.
    Leaving the third officer and engineering staff aboard the ship to have it still flight capable.

    Quote
    Everyone dies because of him not taking command and not following procedure that a child could follow.
    A child would want to get the icky space monster cut off their friend's face as quickly as possible so it didn't hurt them. As would most compassionate people.

    Quote
    I think you are actually conflating 'tone' with character behaviour. I think Dallas is at least equally as stupid, but his stupidity is presented within the cointext of a darker, much scary/serious film.
    Everything he did can be explained in terms of character. He's consistent the whole way through: He cares about his crew to the point he f**ks up, he won't let them endanger themselves later, he goes alone into the vent to atone. On top of that, arguably the "dumbest" thing he did -- get Kane back on the ship -- is exactly what most people would try to do in that situation. If it hadn't been for Ash opening the door, Ripley would've done her job and kept them out.

    Quote
    The point stands... I don’t care if Weyland owns 40% and Burger King the rest, someone (be it solely or in partnership) had dibs over the planets and its resources... one assumes someone couldn’t just roll up and plant a flag when it had been terraformed... hence in the SE where Lydecker asks “if the claim will be honoured”.
    To which the response is "yes", demonstrating how much it doesn't matter what you think when the film points out you're wrong.
  17. SM
    I'll give you that if you can explain why in the hell they changed the transmission SFX.

    f**k knows.

    Quote
    I was stating that they were not equipped, in terms of processes and people, to go investigating alien life signs on remote worlds.

    Yes they were.  They're contractually obliged to investigate transmissions indicating intelligent origin and have quarantine procedures.  Ash and Dallas just circumvented them.

    Quote
    5) He sends himself, the most senior officer, into the vent alone (when it would have easily taken two... which would have been at least a little safer) to trap the alien. Dallas was an idiot...

    That just makes him human.  An attempt at atonement.

    Quote
    I asked if it was “specific dialogue” from the film because I knew the part about Ripley was from the script...  and even with script exerts, I don’t think there’s anything to establish why the company would chose the option of planting Ash on a tug ship rather than sending a dedicated crew/ship.

    Then you're simply more interested in your own opinions than the reality of the story.  Company obtains transmission (how may soon become clearer), deciphers it, reprogram the next ship going near that area of space to make it look like the ship picked it up by accident just in case there's anything of value, puts minder on board in the form of Ash.
  18. Darth Vile
    They do. You're arguing there are no systems in place. The film plainly shows there are, and that Dallas' personal feelings and the Company itself work against these systems from being used, let alone effective.
    I wasn’t “arguing there are no systems in place”??? I was stating that they were not equipped, in terms of processes and people, to go investigating alien life signs on remote worlds. I think the film, albeit indirectly, supports this in that all the crew end up dead. It’s like arguing that the Titantic was equipped to deal with hitting an ice berg.

    Saying their quarantine procedure should take into account the arbitrary gestation period of an organism no-one knows anything about is illogical. 24 hours is usually a pretty good length of time to see if someone's going to get worse from something.
    Again you seem to be purposely misquoting. I didn’t state any such thing... I alluded to the notion that describing a locked door on an airlock as being a ‘quarantine process’ was an overly generous description... and that perhaps a ship expected to check out alien life (it was in their contract remember) should have had a more robust and mature process for dealing with any dangerous life forms or infections.

    And yet when I watch the movie, it runs away without even trying to fight anyone. They're not stupid.
    It runs away of its own volition. Who knows what it would have done if cornered.

    Except Dallas and Milburn aren't at all similar. Context is important. Dallas spends the movie acting like a captain and makes a mistake (Which was wisely ignored by the person currently in charge of the ship) that he ends up paying for. The film justifies his actions. Prometheus doesn't justify Milburn's.
    Completely disagree. Dallas is a shit captain.
    1) He accepts a mission to a hostile environment not even questioning why they should be taking part in it or asking himself if they are capable.
    2) He puts an away team in place consisting of both the captain and 2nd officer.
    3) He should have returned to the Nostromo as soon as he lost communications with the Nostromo when approaching the derelict... Never proceed without comms.
    4) He contravenes the supposed ‘quarantine processes’ and puts the entire crew in jeopardy. Everyone dies because of him not taking command and not following procedure that a child could follow.
    5) He sends himself, the most senior officer, into the vent alone (when it would have easily taken two... which would have been at least a little safer) to trap the alien. Dallas was an idiot...

    I think you are actually conflating 'tone' with character behaviour. I think Dallas is at least equally as stupid, but his stupidity is presented within the cointext of a darker, much scary/serious film. The tone of Prometheus is much more directed to under 18's and is not really a 'horror' film - IMHO.

    Yes. Immediately after Dallas agrees to let Ash keep the face hugger.
    I asked if it was “specific dialogue” from the film because I knew the part about Ripley was from the script...  and even with script exerts, I don’t think there’s anything to establish why the company would chose the option of planting Ash on a tug ship rather than sending a dedicated crew/ship.

    I said WY isn't; I clarified above that I meant WY isn't the sole operator of the station. It's a joint operation, not a wholly corporate one.
    The point stands... I don’t care if Weyland owns 40% and Burger King the rest, someone (be it solely or in partnership) had dibs over the planets and its resources... one assumes someone couldn’t just roll up and plant a flag when it had been terraformed... hence in the SE where Lydecker asks “if the claim will be honoured”.
  19. SiL
    I think Riddles cut it from the DC because it was two seconds he could easily cut around. There doesn't seem to be a lot of thinking going into what got taken out and what got put in.

    Which you'd expect when someone was happy with what they did the first time.
  20. SiL
    No version has Dallas' line about Ripley being rotated onto the Nostromo at Thedus, though it was scripted.  The line about Ash was in the TC but cut from the DC.
    Oh for f**k's sake I've gotta stop doing this! Would've bet money I could remember hearing that line. I need to rewatch the actual film. I've been relying on the script, novel, and redux (Which doesn't have it either) too much.

    Point conceded, but still. Film clearly states Ash was swapped out two days prior at Thedus.
  21. SM
    No version has Dallas' line about Ripley being rotated onto the Nostromo at Thedus, though it was scripted.  The line about Ash was in the TC but cut from the DC.

    Quote
    Was that in the film? If they already had that information circa 6 months previously... then we’re back to why send the Nostromo? Again, that the crew ended up dead and they, the company, didn’t get their alien specimen further underlines what a hairbrained, nonsensical plan it was... if indeed there was ever a plan.

    It was indeed the plan and wasn't nonsensical in the slightest.  It made perfect financial sense to obtain a specimen of whatever the warning was about - if indeed there was still anything alive - via the next ship going near that area of space, and make sure you have some insurance on board with a special order to follow.  Much cheaper than mounting an expedition, that could amount to nothing.  Cameron repeated this in the form of Burke in Aliens.  Burke didn't want to make a security situation with the ECA just in case the ship didn't even exist.  Whoever issued SO 937 was doing the same thing - they were out for themselves, but weren't dumb enough to put themselves in harms way like Burke did.
  22. SiL
    They don’t...
    They do. You're arguing there are no systems in place. The film plainly shows there are, and that Dallas' personal feelings and the Company itself work against these systems from being used, let alone effective.

    Quote
    Isn’t that a logical consideration given, you know, their ‘contractual obligation’ to investigate signs of alien life???
    Saying their quarantine procedure should take into account the arbitrary gestation period of an organism no-one knows anything about is illogical. 24 hours is usually a pretty good length of time to see if someone's going to get worse from something.

    Quote
    That seems a rather big assumption given that this is an alien that has “acid for blood” and has big metal teeth. One would assume that such a “perfect organism” has the ability to aggressively defend itself... even an infant one. It’s not like getting rid of a spider stuck in the bath.
    And yet when I watch the movie, it runs away without even trying to fight anyone. They're not stupid.

    Quote
    Well that just sounds like you’re trying to justify an irrational action/decision on Dallas’ part... which is fine, but at least be willing to apply that reasoning to other films and situations (which is really my entire point).
    Except Dallas and Milburn aren't at all similar. Context is important. Dallas spends the movie acting like a captain and makes a mistake (Which was wisely ignored by the person currently in charge of the ship) that he ends up paying for. The film justifies his actions. Prometheus doesn't justify Milburn's.

    Quote
    Was that specific dialogue in the actual film?
    Yes. Immediately after Dallas agrees to let Ash keep the face hugger.

    Quote
    Ripley: Did you ever ship out with Ash before?

    Dallas: I went out five times with another science officer. They replaced him two days before we left Thedus with Ash. Hmm?

    Ripley: I don't trust him.

    Dallas: Well, I don't trust anybody.

    That's from IMDb, which seems to get the line from the DC. The TC has Dallas pointing out to Ripley she was also recently transferred. It's right there in the film.

    Quote
    I’m not sure what you’re suggesting? You said they weren’t terraforming and VL refers to them as ‘terraformers’...
    I said WY isn't; I clarified above that I meant WY isn't the sole operator of the station. It's a joint operation, not a wholly corporate one.
  23. Darth Vile
    It's entirely relevant. You say it doesn't make sense because the crew have no way of dealing with these types of situation, the film clearly shows they do.
    They don’t... they all die save Ripley and a cat. That Ash facilitates this is irrelevant given that Kane is already ‘infected’ before Ash gets involved in anything... and that the captain himself isn’t even willing to follow/adhere to any safety procedures. They are  the epitome of a ‘Mickey Mouse’ outfit.

    That's irrelevant as you're now trying to argue the crew should have had quarantine procedures specifically to deal with something they've never encountered before.
    Isn’t that a logical consideration given, you know, their ‘contractual obligation’ to investigate signs of alien life???

    The chest-burster ran from everyone the second it was born. All they would've had to do is open the outer lock and let it run off the ship. Dallas was also armed.
    That seems a rather big assumption given that this is an alien that has “acid for blood” and has big metal teeth. One would assume that such a “perfect organism” has the ability to aggressively defend itself... even an infant one. It’s not like getting rid of a spider stuck in the bath.

    Dallas was scared and worried for the safety of his crew. Ripley was going by the book and doing what they were supposed to. There's a difference between "capable" and "willing".
    Well that just sounds like you’re trying to justify an irrational action/decision on Dallas’ part... which is fine, but at least be willing to apply that reasoning to other films and situations (which is really my entire point).

    No, but they can be expected to listen to dialogue in the movie, wherein Dallas plainly states that Ash was replaced two days before they left Thedus with Ash. And that Ripley was swapped for the previous Warrant Officer.
    Was that specific dialogue in the actual film?

    They didn't, they already had the transmission.
    Was that in the film? If they already had that information circa 6 months previously... then we’re back to why send the Nostromo? Again, that the crew ended up dead and they, the company, didn’t get their alien specimen further underlines what a hairbrained, nonsensical plan it was... if indeed there was ever a plan.

    Same reason Burke did -- they didn't know what was there so they rerouted someone already going near. The Special Order just says to get a "specimen". It doesn't say of what.
    And that explanation suffers from the same gap in logic... So the company actually get their hands on an ‘alien transmission’... I repeat, an actual ‘alien transmission’... so the company in all its wisdom, and with all its resources at hand, send ill equipped truckers to investigate just for the sake of brevity... even though they go to the trouble of supplanting an android onboard. Why not just send an android rather than an expendable crew?

    Implies they're supplying the kit and have stakes in it, yes, implies they own the planet or the entire operation, no.
    I think it implies much more than that... given everything we’re shown on screen.

    And at no point is WY mentioned.
    I’m not sure what you’re suggesting? You said they weren’t terraforming and VL refers to them as ‘terraformers’...
  24. SM
    Quote
    If you are going to try and respond, at least engage the brain a little... Prometheus "clearly points out" that Milburn and Fifield get lost. It also establishes that Milburn is a biologist and is happy to try and pet an alien snake. So by your reasoning, that's a perfectly fine because the film establishes the points in question. Fine - case closed then.

    What?

    If you are going to try and make a point, at least make it vaguely coherent or at the minimum, relevant.

    Quote
    So remember the Nostromo was rerouted after Ash was put on board, not before, right?

    SO 937 would suggest that the Nostromo was rerouted before.  'Cos the Special Order Ash says 'Nostromo re-routed' (past tense).  It implies that someone had arranged for it to be re-routed before leaving Thedus and Ash joining the crew.

    Quote
    There's nothing that says it is, plenty in the SE strongly suggesting it isn't.

    The colony is a joint venture between the ECA and WY.  Deleted dialogue talks about WY getting an advantage with mineral rights because of the joint venture.  Any national or corporate ownership of the planet is never mentioned.

    Quote
    They aren't terraforming, period. It's a colonial outpost. WY provides the tech.

    You've lost me here - what's the AP for if they're not terraforming?

    Quote
    We don’t know that the alien’s gestation period was shorter than the quarantine period.

    All things considered - Kane would've likely been dead before quarantine was up.
  25. SiL
    That’s pretty much irrelevant.
    It's entirely relevant. You say it doesn't make sense because the crew have no way of dealing with these types of situation, the film clearly shows they do.

    Quote
    We don’t know that the alien’s gestation period was shorter than the quarantine period. Ergo, even after quarantine, Kane would have still been brought onto the ship with aforementioned alien embryo inside.
    That's irrelevant as you're now trying to argue the crew should have had quarantine procedures specifically to deal with something they've never encountered before.

    Quote
    Even if they left them in the airlock (which isn’t exactly the same as ‘quarantine’ by any stretch) Kane was still going to end up dead... possibly Dallas and Lambert too.
    The chest-burster ran from everyone the second it was born. All they would've had to do is open the outer lock and let it run off the ship. Dallas was also armed.

    Quote
    Also, the fact that Ripley was the only one bothered about quarantine procedure and that Dallas, the captain, was not... aptly demonstrates their overall lack of capability to do the job in hand.
    Dallas was scared and worried for the safety of his crew. Ripley was going by the book and doing what they were supposed to. There's a difference between "capable" and "willing".

    Quote
    What the film heavily alludes to/implies is that the Nostromo is rerouted whilst the crew are in hypersleep,
    It really doesn't.

    Quote
    What’s Thedus? The audience can’t be expected to read supplementary material to work out the logic of what’s in the film.
    No, but they can be expected to listen to dialogue in the movie, wherein Dallas plainly states that Ash was replaced two days before they left Thedus with Ash. And that Ripley was swapped for the previous Warrant Officer.

    Quote
    how did the company know to put Ash onboard before the alien transmission was picked up?
    They didn't, they already had the transmission.

    Quote
    And if they knew about the alien transmission before, why send an ill equipped ship/crew?
    Same reason Burke did -- they didn't know what was there so they rerouted someone already going near. The Special Order just says to get a "specimen". It doesn't say of what.

    Quote
    Also, worth noting that the colonists wear uniforms with a ‘Weyland’ emblazed on them and to the “Building Better Worlds” logo which again implies some level of ownership.
    Implies they're supplying the kit and have stakes in it, yes, implies they own the planet or the entire operation, no.

    Quote
    VAN LEUWEN: There have been people there for over twenty years and they never complained about any hostile organism.
    RIPLEY: What do you mean?  What people?
    VAN LEUWEN: Terraformers, planet engineers. They go in, set up these big atmosphere processors to make the air breathable. Takes decades. It's what we call a shake 'n bake colony.
    And at no point is WY mentioned.
  26. Kimarhi
    Thedus is mentioned I the first movie.  You don't have to read any supplementary material to know its where they started from.  Its even implied that Ripley was newish.  This is found out contextually through the dialogue.

  27. Darth Vile
    No, they all died because the person who was planted on the ship by the Company to ensure a specimen was returned overruled the person currently in charge of the ship and violated basic quarantine procedure. Ripley was doing exactly what they should have in that situation under normal circumstances; forced them to stay the hell out of the ship for 24 hours. They had procedures in place to deal with these situations and the Company actively sought to circumvent them for their own gain.

    That’s pretty much irrelevant. Kane was already incubating the alien. We don’t know that the alien’s gestation period was shorter than the quarantine period. Ergo, even after quarantine, Kane would have still been brought onto the ship with aforementioned alien embryo inside. Even if they left them in the airlock (which isn’t exactly the same as ‘quarantine’ by any stretch) Kane was still going to end up dead... possibly Dallas and Lambert too. Also, the fact that Ripley was the only one bothered about quarantine procedure and that Dallas, the captain, was not... aptly demonstrates their overall lack of capability to do the job in hand. Not that I blame them... they’re just space truckers.  ;)

    I can't remember something that's not actually in the film, no. The exact time the ship was rerouted isn't explicitly stated.
    What the film heavily alludes to/implies is that the Nostromo is rerouted whilst the crew are in hypersleep, and that the crew already consists of Ash... Otherwise when they awake, they’d either be surprised by Ash’s appearance or not surprised at the Nostromo’s position.

    Why are you assuming Ash wasn't already at Thedus? Clearly there are Company crew at the fueling stations and getting transferred somewhat regularly as Ripley was also transferred to the Nostromo at the same time.
    What’s Thedus? The audience can’t be expected to read supplementary material to work out the logic of what’s in the film. The film explicitly shows us that Ash is already a member of the crew, even if only a recent addition and the question still remains... how did the company know to put Ash onboard before the alien transmission was picked up? And if they knew about the alien transmission before, why send an ill equipped ship/crew? Of course that’s a rhetorical question because we both know the answer... it’s simply a convenience to allow for a reveal/shock later on in the story. Once we get to the “Ash is a god damn robot” scene, we are less interested in the internal logic of it.

    There's nothing that says it is, plenty in the SE strongly suggesting it isn't.

    They aren't terraforming, period. It's a colonial outpost. WY provides the tech.

    The craploads of money they charge for their AP stations.
    I’ll point you to the dialogue below... It heavily suggests that the colonists work for Weyland. Also, worth noting that the colonists wear uniforms with a ‘Weyland’ emblazed on them and to the “Building Better Worlds” logo which again implies some level of ownership.

    VAN LEUWEN: There have been people there for over twenty years and they never complained about any hostile organism.
    RIPLEY: What do you mean?  What people?
    VAN LEUWEN: Terraformers, planet engineers. They go in, set up these big atmosphere processors to make the air breathable. Takes decades. It's what we call a shake 'n bake colony.
  28. DoomRulz
    The logic, or lack of logic, is borne out in the actual film... they all died because they were not equipped or experienced enough to deal with the situation.
    No, they all died because the person who was planted on the ship by the Company to ensure a specimen was returned overruled the person currently in charge of the ship and violated basic quarantine procedure. Ripley was doing exactly what they should have in that situation under normal circumstances; forced them to stay the hell out of the ship for 24 hours. They had procedures in place to deal with these situations and the Company actively sought to circumvent them for their own gain.

    Come to think of it, had someone actually listened to Parker when he was shouting, "Why don't you freeze him?", all their problems would've been prevented :P
  29. SiL
    Im saying its silly to assume a scientist wouldn't do something stupid.
    It is silly. Which is why no one has ever said that.

    As for the mistakes you then list people make, none of them are actually similar to what Milburn does. It's like a car driver seeing he's veering off the road and deciding this is exactly what he should be doing. The problems you list are oversights or problems with people getting complacent, none of which Milburn is shown doing. He's a firefighter looking at an inferno and saying "Oh, it's so bright and warm! I'm going to walk into it."

    People are allowed to make mistakes. The problem is Milburn is only ever shown being worse at his job than somebody with no experience. This is what people call bullshit on.

    The logic, or lack of logic, is borne out in the actual film... they all died because they were not equipped or experienced enough to deal with the situation.
    No, they all died because the person who was planted on the ship by the Company to ensure a specimen was returned overruled the person currently in charge of the ship and violated basic quarantine procedure. Ripley was doing exactly what they should have in that situation under normal circumstances; forced them to stay the hell out of the ship for 24 hours. They had procedures in place to deal with these situations and the Company actively sought to circumvent them for their own gain.

    Quote
    So remember the Nostromo was rerouted after Ash was put on board, not before, right?
    I can't remember something that's not actually in the film, no. The exact time the ship was rerouted isn't explicitly stated.

    Quote
    And common sense tells you that (giving the film the benefit of the doubt) if they had previous Intel on alien transmissions, and had the ability/time to get Ash to a location to board the Nostromo, they’d have the ability to get, you know, a ‘professional/professionals’ out there? Why wouldn’t they? What would they lose 48hrs??? Just to send ill equipped, unskilled people out?
    Why are you assuming Ash wasn't already at Thedus? Clearly there are Company crew at the fueling stations and getting transferred somewhat regularly as Ripley was also transferred to the Nostromo at the same time.

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    There’s nothing in the film that states that LV426 isn’t owned by the company.
    There's nothing that says it is, plenty in the SE strongly suggesting it isn't.

    Quote
    They are not terraforming for the love of it.
    They aren't terraforming, period. It's a colonial outpost. WY provides the tech.

    Quote
    What would be the point of having presence there if not to claim the resources etc?
    The craploads of money they charge for their AP stations.
  30. Darth Vile
    Okay, so your entire argument is "They're space truckers". That's not actually an explanation for why it's illogical.
    The logic, or lack of logic, is borne out in the actual film... they all died because they were not equipped or experienced enough to deal with the situation. Ergo it’s not a logical policy to expect untrained, unskilled employees to check out alien transmissions. I can’t think of a single situation in ‘real’ life where people hauling cargo, transporting fuel would be expected to do such things. Whereas I CAN name several PHD’s, whom I personally know, who are not gifted with common sense.

    They're not at all similar and that comparison is really, really thin.
    “Thin” in so much as space truckers having that remit stretches belief and the fact that there are scientists who do silly things. This is about willing suspension of disbelief... and the associated tolerance levels.

    It was pretty obviously the latter, and it does make sense. Rerouting a ship that's already on its way and replacing the science officer is a lot less work than putting together an entire crew and dedicated ship for what might be nothing. There aren't any complicated logistics involved; crew transfers clearly aren't that uncommon, as Ripley was also put aboard the ship at the same time.
    So remember the Nostromo was rerouted after Ash was put on board, not before, right? So how did the company know to put Ash onboard before the Nostromo picked up an alien transmission? And common sense tells you that (giving the film the benefit of the doubt) if they had previous Intel on alien transmissions, and had the ability/time to get Ash to a location to board the Nostromo, they’d have the ability to get, you know, a ‘professional/professionals’ out there? Why wouldn’t they? What would they lose 48hrs??? Just to send ill equipped, unskilled people out?

    They can, as they're prospectors. The SE makes this clear. The planet isn't owned by anyone, the colony and AP station are. Anything found on the planet is up for grabs. The Alien universe never implies that entire planets are owned by corporations.
    There’s nothing in the film that states that LV426 isn’t owned by the company. Weyland are an aggressive, greedy corporate organisation right? They are not terraforming for the love of it. What would be the point of having presence there if not to claim the resources etc?
    Why refer to the colonists as “planet engineers”, build huge atmosphere processors if it only applies to Hadley’s Hope colony?

    What part did he leave out? "Go check this out" was all they needed to do. Burke didn't even know if there was something there.
    And the point being is that there was no reason why Burke wouldn’t have been cautious, or at least used his brain, because if Ripley’s story were to be true, the person “checking it out” would be fecked... and he’d be back at square one. It would be a bit like hearing a noise downstairs at night, not knowing if it were an intruder, waking up your wife and asking her to get you a coke from the kitchen.

    The subterfuge only came in after Burke and the Marines got stranded next to a ticking nuclear bomb.
    That’s not accurate. The subterfuge started when he asked someone to “go check it out” knowing that it was dangerous, and continued when he didn’t disclose this information to the company, Ripley or the marines. That information would have probably resulted in a different approach.
    Would've been very easy for one of the security guys to be in that scene -- just have him walk off with Fifield. Milburn being there didn't serve the story other than to kill him off.
    Not really because, as it stands, Milburn and Fifields characters had both been established by that point... so it would have been difficult to just force someone else into that situation. I agree though, Scott could have established another character earlier on that wasn’t Fifield or Milburn and have them encounter the Hammerpede alone... which could have led to a more scary scene. Remember, I’m not arguing against the notion that the scene could have been made more effective, I’m arguing that it has little to do with how believable Milburn is as a character.


    Quote
    "Space Truckers" would be no more contractually obliged to investigate alien signals/life forms than would a trucker in the Mid West of the US be contractually obliged to recover specimens of snakes, poisonous flora and fungi on the way back to the depot.

    But as the film clealy points out, they ARE contractually obliged.

    Quote
    2) That the company put Ash there in order to report on/protect anything coming back from the Nostromo's detour. Which again wouldn't make any sense given the logistics of putting Ash on board prior to the Nostromo leaving dock (wherever that was). If the company had time to supplant Ash, then they surely had the time to send a dedicated crew and vessel instead of the Nostromo.

    Your argument could not be more ridiculous.

    Quote
    Burke: "Hey Simpson - there's possibly a big find, a crashed ship, at coordinates X,Y and Z. However, it could be very dangerous, so find it, take some aerial shots and we'll make a joint claim... 50/50... But whatever you do, do not go inside. We'll leave that for the specialists once we have the rights".

    Simpson: "Sounds sensible to me... I don't like taking risks".

    You really need to pay more attention to the films.  Burke clearly outlines why this conversation would never have taken place.
    If you are going to try and respond, at least engage the brain a little... Prometheus "clearly points out" that Milburn and Fifield get lost. It also establishes that Milburn is a biologist and is happy to try and pet an alien snake. So by your reasoning, that's a perfectly fine because the film establishes the points in question. Fine - case closed then.  ::)
  31. CainsSon
    The pilot doesn't crash his plane because he thinks nose-diving into the ground is a good way to land. The guitar player doesn't mess up because he thinks he's supposed to play a guitar with a pickaxe.

    The only people missing the point are those harping on that "People are allowed to do stupid things!". Milburn's actions are stupid for anyone. No normal person is going to stick their hand in a space snake's face and say it's mesmerized when it starts hissing at them. It's compounded by the fact he's an animal biologist and should, presumably, know the least bit about animals. The cherry on top is that ten minutes earlier we saw him wetting himself and running in fear from a perfectly harmless corpse.

    His actions are dumb. His actions are even dumber taking into account he's supposed to be a professional who should know better. They become moronic when the film itself establishes him as a f**kin' pansy, and then has him sticking his hand in a hissing space-cobra's face going "Cootchie cootchi coo".

    If he had been presented as some kind'a Steve Irwin type, fair enough. If he'd been portrayed as someone overly sure of himself, cool. But he wasn't. The entire scene is just stupidity compounding stupidity.

    If people can look past that, more power to them, but sticking fingers in ears going "La la la can't hear you it's totally not that bad" without being able to come up with a single reasonable explanation given the film doesn't make the scene any less dumb.

    Where in your reading comprehension skills did you find me saying 'It WASN'T dumb?"
    Didn't I specifically say, "Yes, it is dumb. But what's dumber, is thinking smart people don't do dumb things?"

    I also didn't say people are allowed to do stupid things. I never even said it wasn't stupid. Im saying its silly to assume a scientist wouldn't do something stupid. It makes me think you have some crazy ideal for how scientists behave, and have never known or spoken to people who are involved in research. They are just like everybody else. They do stupid things and make silly mistakes all the time. They drop glasses down the garbage disposal. They miss the bowl when they pee because they didn't get enough coffee.
    And for the record: When a guitar player effs up, or a pilot crashes a plane it is ABSOLUTELY and RESEARCHED and DOCUMENTED that they do so because they make a bunch of silly mistakes, like not eating right, not getting enough sleep that night, overlooking some minor detail, or getting distracted by a piece of ass. Even the most objective person in the world is still working against their own subjective impulses and they fail at it sooner or later.

    How many people who drive cars, forget to change their oil and fluids or even get enough gas and break down? Or rush to work because they forgot to set their alarms and cause an accident? Do you suppose those people aren't good at driving? That the only people who make glaring behavioral mistakes when driving are those who don't know how to drive? If you want to stats involved, the truth is, the MORE you do something the more likely you are to make mistakes doing it.
  32. Kimarhi
    In the military you don't always have backup.  I was a lone forcepro in the middle of nowhere Ethiopia where my only companion was a ?Navy Seabee who promptly went to sleep within three minutes of our arrival.  Any medevac or CAS would've had to come from another country over to get there and the rest of the forcepro was an hour and thirty minute drive away by landrover.  The only thing we had to communicate with was a satellite phone which would've made it useless to do anything but call our TOC with anyways.

    The military is kind of always portrayed as being ruthlessly efficient.  It has its fill of wtf moments as well.  Leaving two guys in the middle of nowhere by themselves with no support is a wtf moment.   

    I imagine traveling from system to system will be like the old naval voyages of the past.  You run into trouble you deal with it the best you can until some other naval boat picks you up.  Could be days or weeks later.  I would bet that whatever version of MOTHER the Sulaco was using would have pretty sophisticated defense systems.  If the USCMC is always operating short hand it would have to.  Otherwise there is no way to complete the mission.

    Likewise we would've had to just deal with it until help came if something went down.  Personally I don't see that as a fault.  Our battalion was understrength when we deployed so we were stretched very very thin all over Africa.  If the Technical manual is to be believed then the USCMC has 200,000 Marines for the whole Galaxy.....
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